Does entertaining to the audience mean not credited by judges?

[BRASSO]

Not judging musician played music? What about the winter drumlines? Or even the concert percussion ensembles? I think this is a great way to describe GE. Thank you for posting this, corpsband.

I was referring the Guard competition portion of WGI.

Corpsband used the WGI definition of " General Effect ". He assumes that the captions are defined the same between WGI and DCI. That was an erroneous assumption. They are NOT defined the same. The GE judge in WGI is not applying his or her caption the same way as it would be applied in DCI. While there is some commonality, there are significant diiferences in the definition and the application of " General Effect" between WGI and DCI. I wanted to clear up his misunderstanding, that was all.

Edited July 30, 2010 by BRASSO

[Piper]

What ?? First of all..the judges are giving numbers, based on the performance...for the people marching the shows. They are there trying to perfect the program because its a competition and scores are assesed based on a confirmed, known, set of criteria. Who cares about us and what we enjoy...yes its fun to watch a show, why perform if theres no audience, blah blah blah..bottom line, its about them, not us.

Second, Figure skating judges have multiple camera angles and instant replay for assesing the critera and elements of a figure skaters performance, they do indeed have the ability to observe and make a judjement on things wee se and things we dont.

G

A very good point as well as one of my pet peeves. In figure skating every judge on the panel is essentially judging the same performance, whereas in Drum Corps each judge is assigned a specific caption and the final scores are tallied accordingly, which is much fairer.

[corpsband]

This is GE WGI you've cite here. GE in DCI is defined differently.

Based on the GE Music Sheet -- I disagree. The GE Music sheet complies completely with this definition.

Can you post a copy of the DCI definition? Or just a post a copy of the GE VIS sheet?

[corpsband]

I was referring the Guard competition portion of WGI.

Corpsband used the WGI definition of " General Effect ". He assumes that the captions are defined the same between WGI and DCI. That was an erroneous assumption. They are NOT defined the same. The GE judge in WGI is not applying his or her caption the same way as it would be applied in DCI. While there is some commonality, there are significant diiferences in the definition and the application of " General Effect" between WGI and DCI. I wanted to clear up his misunderstanding, that was all.

No I did not use any specific caption from WGI. This is the general definition of GE in their judging handbook not the definition of any single caption. I'm willing to wager that the definition in DCI handbook is eerily similar. While the music and visual captions will further enhance and refine this definition, I suspect that conceptually it is identical.

BTW Brasso I know the difference between the captions in WGI and DCI. But thanks for caring

Edited July 31, 2010 by corpsband

[corpsband]

You said "mirrors"

lol.

[corpsband]

Not judging musician played music? What about the winter drumlines? Or even the concert percussion ensembles? I think this is a great way to describe GE. Thank you for posting this, corpsband.

You're welcome! Based on the single DCI sheet we have access to online (GE Music) this definition matches up perfectly. It also happens to match up to every GE sheet for marching band that I've ever seen (which all seem to use the same core material)

Edited July 31, 2010 by corpsband

[oldtimedrummer]

The most entertaining shows this year at the top are Cadets and Cavaliers.

It depends on how you define entertainment. I think both Cadets and Cavs are just great this year (as is Crown and Bloo), but I also find the Devils very entertaining. Every time I see BD's show, I see and hear another reference, or another parody on a previous years. The cadets and Cavs are both excellent. But BD is putting a lot out there. You may have to dig a little, but believe me, it's there.

[littlebirdy]

Problem is, entertaining to the audience is also often easy. Honks call it entertainment, haters call it "lack of demand".

Ex: Cavaliers "rifle" part of their show. Definitely entertaining. A big part in identifying them as the Cavaliers. It gets a standing ovation almost every show.

But there is no logical person that can argue it is demanding in any way. This part of their show can gain GE points IF they pull it off as such. Or, it could look really cheesy and be seen as a major part of the show without the horns doing much. Double-edged sword. And since this is a competition, the judges get the say.

[Jeff Ream]

This is GE WGI you've cite here. GE in DCI is defined differently. WGI is not judging musician played music. It is judging what is essentially a visual show performance. In DCI, the General Effect captions places a HUGE amount of value upon the ability of the music and visual components to work in a seemless way. For example, a Corps could play interesting music (that the audience appears to like), but if in the opinion of the GE judge the Visual side, including the Guard work, did not appear well integrated with that music, the GE caption suffers. 2009 Phantom Regiment is one ilustration of this. The audience is essentially a non factor in any of the judged captions. A corps that has a visually striking show where the music played is well integrated and well coordinated with the visual will score very high irrespective on whether or not the show connects, emotionally, intellectually, or aestetically with the audience. 2010 Blue Devils are a good illustration of this. The GE judge is looking for " Effect " not on the audience but on HIM or HER ( the judge ), and the judge is looking for a fully integrated, seemless, show visually and musically above all else in the GE Caption. ( hope this helps )

WGI Percussion's take on GE:

We owe our audiences a captivating, pleasing, diverse, competitive event in many acts, offering originality,

variety and QUALITY, through many different avenues. The primary ingredient here is quality. The

presence of quality in program and performance will hold the audience’s attention. The triad of effect

options, aesthetic appeal (recognition and accessibility), intellectual intrigue (quality/range/detail of

design/arrangement, or creative new approaches), and emotional feelings (reactions) blend together to

support the diversity and the quality inherent in successful programs. The quality of performance, the

depth of training, and the communication of the performers, creates the connection to the audience who

responds to them with admiration and appreciation.

[corpsband]

WGI Percussion's take on GE:

We owe our audiences a captivating, pleasing, diverse, competitive event in many acts, offering originality,

variety and QUALITY, through many different avenues. The primary ingredient here is quality. The

presence of quality in program and performance will hold the audience’s attention. The triad of effect

options, aesthetic appeal (recognition and accessibility), intellectual intrigue (quality/range/detail of

design/arrangement, or creative new approaches), and emotional feelings (reactions) blend together to

support the diversity and the quality inherent in successful programs. The quality of performance, the

depth of training, and the communication of the performers, creates the connection to the audience who

responds to them with admiration and appreciation.

Basically the same definition. Just much wordier. But the closing sentence summarizes the paragraph with exactly the same concept as the guard definition. Connect with / engage the audience. Credit design (through triad of effect) and performer (quality of performance, depth of training, communication).

DCI's definition is almost certainly the same. Why? Because it's the same concept being defined.

As I said earlier -- the myth that GE has nothing to do with the audience is widespread.

GE is *all* about communicating with the audience.