Blackstar Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Your right winning isnt everything but success is. Usually the one who says that phrase LOST ALOT...sorry. You cant keep getting beat up over and over and over and not change something. How many times can you bounce back..how many times can you lose people, how many times can you say it doesnt matter, how many times can you hear IN LAST PLACE, I love this corps I really do but change is needed I think...at least give the memebers !1/2 a chance. To not do so based maybe on an archaoic attitude is just selfish.OH and as far as Better Days? thats totally debateable. We all as older people love the GOOD OLE DAYS...only because we have selective memories. How many corps put winning ahead of everything and are no longer on the field. Should I list them or just point you towards Corpsreps. Sure Americans love to win. But winning isn't everything. Too many corps tried to win or make finals or even make the top 25 or 21. Sure there were ther reasons corps folded but it came down to winning. Also winning takes on many forms. Betting you score each day or from last year. Doing harder music, or drill. Getting onto the field when others can't. Making sure each kid is fed. Seeing the look on a kids face who just learned a new passage on a new instrument. But most of DCP thinks winning is make finals or just beating the corps ahead of you. I'll take Pioneers form of winning over any of the other corps any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 (edited) Double post sorry Edited August 22, 2010 by Blackstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 How many corps put winning ahead of everything and are no longer on the field. Should I list them or just point you towards Corpsreps. Sure Americans love to win. But winning isn't everything. Too many corps tried to win or make finals or even make the top 25 or 21. Sure there were ther reasons corps folded but it came down to winning. Also winning takes on many forms. Betting you score each day or from last year. Doing harder music, or drill. Getting onto the field when others can't. Making sure each kid is fed. Seeing the look on a kids face who just learned a new passage on a new instrument. But most of DCP thinks winning is make finals or just beating the corps ahead of you. I'll take Pioneers form of winning over any of the other corps any day. You took 1 part of a statement and ran with only part of what I said...Happens alot on DCP......I never said winning was everything. As far as Pioneer...is it working for them>? Do they not lose kids in droves every year? Do you realise what activity youre in?....If competition means nothing then advocate within the activity and get rid of judging altogether. In the meantime, Competition is part of what this activity is all about..YES many others things BUT still a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 and also why do it in World Class to make it even worse...Im not judging just asking the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 My thing with Pioneer is that they are still old school. Meaning they give kids a chance to march. They teach kids the basic and probably how to be a responsible citizen. Is that important...HELL YES. Look at the world we live in. More crime, more kids in jail the ever before. People are looking for something for there kids to do. There are people trying to put together more after school, summer programs then ever before because they are trying to make better citizens. Back in the day many corps were started for one reason, to give kids something to do. But somewhere along the way it became about winning and money. When I read about "support XX corps in the Chase Community giving" I laugh my ### off. Whats makes say any of the top 15 better deserving then a food bank, homeless shelter, after school program for kids, the list goes on. How much support would a corps like Pioneer, Raiders, Spirit of NJ and the smaller corps get. Take a minute and think how much better America, yes I said America,would be if we had more corps like Pionner who gave kids a chance to march that couldn't anywhere else. As far as the World Class thing, The touring model lets kids travel more then Open Class. If you can afford it then do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 My thing with Pioneer is that they are still old school. Meaning they give kids a chance to march. They teach kids the basic and probably how to be a responsible citizen. Is that important...HELL YES. Look at the world we live in. More crime, more kids in jail the ever before. People are looking for something for there kids to do. There are people trying to put together more after school, summer programs then ever before because they are trying to make better citizens. Back in the day many corps were started for one reason, to give kids something to do. But somewhere along the way it became about winning and money. When I read about "support XX corps in the Chase Community giving" I laugh my ### off. Whats makes say any of the top 15 better deserving then a food bank, homeless shelter, after school program for kids, the list goes on. How much support would a corps like Pioneer, Raiders, Spirit of NJ and the smaller corps get. Take a minute and think how much better America, yes I said America,would be if we had more corps like Pionner who gave kids a chance to march that couldn't anywhere else. As far as the World Class thing, The touring model lets kids travel more then Open Class. If you can afford it then do it. Craig. With all due respect, America's fortunes are not tied to Pioneer's drum corps. Don't conflate please. Pioneer is a drum corps. One that appeals to around 100 young people. Do they make a difference. Yep. Does Crown? Cavies? Blue Devils? Yep. There have been members of Pioneer who are solid members of society. There are also former members of Pioneer who may have felony records. Same could be said of any corps. So before we launch Pioneer up as the cure for America's ills, let's just agree to this. Pioneer is a drum corps from Milwaukee who at one point was a World Class (then Div. 1) semifinalist and have since not been competitive at that level. The purpose of this topic is to analyze why...yes, to "Monday morning quarterback" some reasons why Pioneer is not more competitive. The current consensus is, the current model is not going to be competitive and that doesn't really matter. What you seem to be trying to set up is that all other World Class corps are evil somehow because they do something to make their corps more competitive. I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousSoundbyte Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Pioneer was one of the hardest corps for me to watch this season. Not because they weren't talented - they were clearly competent musicians and marchers. And that is exactly why the show was so hard for me to watch. The corps is as good, if not better than it's been in a decade, and the design team gave them a show that was almost built like it was meant for last place. I understand the corps prayer is an integral part of the corps identity, and that it means a lot to everyone involved in the corps, but watching it from the stands was borderline cringe worthy. It was a show that tells people still of age to march that, while Pioneer has morals to pass down, they aren't giving you a vehicle to contend with. So much talk has been done on these forums about Pioneer being competitive from fans, members, and even Pioneer staff. All of the pieces are there... it's obvious watching the corps perform that they can do their part. But if Pioneer truly wants to succeed, it's not going to happen with shows like this past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Pioneer was one of the hardest corps for me to watch this season. Not because they weren't talented - they were clearly competent musicians and marchers. And that is exactly why the show was so hard for me to watch. The corps is as good, if not better than it's been in a decade, and the design team gave them a show that was almost built like it was meant for last place. I understand the corps prayer is an integral part of the corps identity, and that it means a lot to everyone involved in the corps, but watching it from the stands was borderline cringe worthy. It was a show that tells people still of age to march that, while Pioneer has morals to pass down, they aren't giving you a vehicle to contend with.So much talk has been done on these forums about Pioneer being competitive from fans, members, and even Pioneer staff. All of the pieces are there... it's obvious watching the corps perform that they can do their part. But if Pioneer truly wants to succeed, it's not going to happen with shows like this past year. agreed. Cringe worthy for me. Not almost as far as I was concerned. But, I am not sure Pioneer attracts talent on par with other corps. Other corps in the past took matters into their hands when it came to recruiting better... Blue Stars Madison Troopers Magic This can be accomplished. There is a precedent for better recruiting from the corps above. It takes alumni involvement, staff improvements and on the field product improvements. It also takes...wait for it....cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasgroh Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Except it's not a requirement. It's an opportunity that is presented to members to utilize if they so desire. ...whatever, Mike...bottom line, they lose a rehearsal block *every* Sunday. Home-made handicap, if you ask me. Those hours add up... cg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasgroh Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 That's it? All they need to do is lose the police hats and recruit? Sweet! I am sure they never thought of that.... ...and make sure you look like everybody else...(lol...I LOVE those hats!). cg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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