You know drum corps is dying when.............

[Hrothgar15]

I do not think that we exausted all of the possibilities of a 2 valved G bugle before we moved on to the 3 valved one...

But at least there was no discernible difference in sound. With G to Bb, the difference is night and day.

[Jeff Ream]

The arguement that I have seen every time that this is said is that (paraphrasing). "there are 15 teenagers to fill the void for each complainer who isn't spending money". I have not seen the stats or spreadsheets to support that though, and what little math I have seen has been suspect at best.

if those teenagers are there, we'd have seen press releases announcing attendance

[KeithHall]

You will hear many excuses.

Yes the 1970's were good...record numbers of corps at Championships...DCI, US Open, World Open, A-I Open. Yes they did everything on small funds, but lets look at what they did. They traveled within their region. My corps in Western NY stayed west of Syracuse, north to Toronto, west to Cleveland (3 hour drives. Many shows to attend! Then we traveled to Marion, Butler and in 1976 DCI in Philly. We even were operating a bingo game.

Bottom line is, we didn't over due it with travel. As DCI's touring model took shape, it "forced" corps to travel. If you wanted to be competitive, you had/have to do alot of shows, because the judges had to see you.

Yes they are tired arguments, I agree! But the sad fact is, we are losing corps. I believe that corps play and march better today (YES I said that!) then the 60's and 70's. I remember listening to St. Joe's on a recording and hated the sound. Things sound better today.

So then, anyone who expresses bitterness over the disappearance of nearly one thousand drum and bugle corps and their related fanbases and all the nearby hometown competitions and the disenfranchisement of anyone today who has neither the money or the connections to be part of today's drum-and-brass-band activity automatically labels that person as a trolling has-been, or worse, a trolling never-was, and with the implication therewith that person has absolutely nothing to offer the current participants . Got it.

It isn't "all about the kids", it's about all the kids.

Pretty much. Anyone who CONSTANTLY comes to DCP, posts the same tired arguments about how much better drum corps was in the 70's when hundreds of corps toured locally on a shoestring budget with minimal funding and (gasp) folded due to lack of funds and organization while at the same time feeling the need to disparage, insult, and tear down current drum corps designers, directors, staffers and corps every chance they get (current designers, directors, staffers etc who are doing FAR more for the activity than the complainers are doing from their couch) is indeed a bitter has-been troll. I'm glad you understand

[JimF-LowBari]

You will hear many excuses.

Yes the 1970's were good...record numbers of corps at Championships...DCI, US Open, World Open, A-I Open. Yes they did everything on small funds, but lets look at what they did. They traveled within their region. My corps in Western NY stayed west of Syracuse, north to Toronto, west to Cleveland (3 hour drives. Many shows to attend! Then we traveled to Marion, Butler and in 1976 DCI in Philly. We even were operating a bingo game.

Bottom line is, we didn't over due it with travel. As DCI's touring model took shape, it "forced" corps to travel. If you wanted to be competitive, you had/have to do alot of shows, because the judges had to see you.

Yes they are tired arguments, I agree! But the sad fact is, we are losing corps. I believe that corps play and march better today (YES I said that!) then the 60's and 70's. I remember listening to St. Joe's on a recording and hated the sound. Things sound better today.

Being on the Senior side 74-79 I saw first hand how the travel expenses killed the budget of local Senior corps. When gas prices started jacking way up, the corps needed more money from the local shows to be able to survive. The local shows had to up the ticket prices to handle the additional expense and with more expensive tickets, less people came to the show. So that local show folded and corps had to travel further to go to another show. The further distance raised the travel expenses even more and <repeat vicious cycle>. End result: less local shows and less local corps. In my area of PA, I could see a Senior show about every other Saturday over the summer without driving more than 60 or so miles. Today it's down to Lewisburg and Reading, and that's only because Lewisburg started back up a few years back. And ONLY surviving Senior/All Age corps is Reading, down from at least six.

It was more than just the travel costs hitting the budget but having gas more than double within a year was the biggie IMO.

On topis: YKDCID when it costs too #### much to create new corps to replace the corps that fold.

Edited October 22, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[capusctrump]

You know drum corps is dying when……………

You replace your marching instructor with a choreographer.

You try to improve your front line sound by buying a new amp

You publish your repertoire and you play no RECOGNISABLE songs from it

You feel the need to amplify your soloists

You have to make room in the food truck for the 30 tons of props you are hauling around the country

The fans are in the stands complaining that they have to wait for an “exciting” corps……..And they are at the World Finals!!!

You have to make room in your corps budget for MICROPHONES

It stops being about the corps members and becomes all about the corps administration ego

It stops being about horns, drums and pageantry and more about a stage production

You cancel a show because your singer lost her voice.

Your "The Who" theme show involves smashing your amp at the end.

You ditch your Navy oxford shoes for jazz slippers.

You have more brass on the field than ever and still need amplification.

Your field show cures insomnia.

Your drum line cannot execute a single rudiment but moves like Cirque du Soleil.

Your color guard makes male figure skaters look brawny, rugged, and manly in comparison.

Jazz Running?

Your drum major doesn't use a baton or a mace but yells, "Plug it in!"

to start the show.

Your drum corps auditions includes a voice lesson

Your music is not recognizable ……….. by anyone

High mark time marching is unique and original

someone hears DCI and thinks of old Titleist irons.

there are more people in the pit than on the field.

rain cancels a show for fear of electrical problems.

judges give recaps like Bruno Tonioli critiquing a celebrity on "Dancing With the Stars."

drills look like a strand of DNA.

the music you play is so obscure the composers forgot they wrote it.

You hear comments like “I play third violin for the Troopers.”

You think WGI is the bomb but never heard of drum corps.

A soloist blames cracked notes on his #### reed being too dry.

They give I&E medals to flute and saxophone performances!

They start referring to drum corps as BAND!

You are a lifelong drum corps nut and you actually question whether you want to go a competition

You mention the 27th Lancers, North Star, Freelancers, or the Muchachos to “a drum corps fan” and they say “Who?”

The goal of the corps directors is to win a Tony Award

Your show requires an MC to explain what is going on.

The crowd as a whole does not yell and scream anymore during the performance.

People start to compare drum corps sound to that of a concert band

The corps is concerned with conveying nuance rather than giving “that chill”

Can any one think of more?

[capusctrump]

In the summer of 1978,I caught wind that there was a local corps in Tucson.I spent most of my formative years in North Jersey,so I was aware of the existence of The Cadets and The Caballeros.So along with a handful of good horn players we proceeded to a parking lot where this rag-tag group practiced.At first it did not look very appealing,but after observing them for awhile,I started to notice that the drummers were pretty good,and then I realized that this was the best drumline in the state, by far,including the universities!So my horn playing friends and I decided that all this corps really needed was us.

So after practice I met the drum instructor,and he took me over to someone`s house to play me corps records.He had played with The Kilties in the mid `60s.I think we listened to the 1975 DCA Championship albums and The Cavaliers doing Russian Wedding Music.He told me about The Blue Devils,because the corps had gone to see The Championships in Denver the previous year.The director of the corps,told us that if we won The State VFW Contest,that he would see to it that we would go to the nationals in New Orleans.The state contest was a little over 3 weeks away,and so far the corps had an opener,and nothing else,so we dove in head first and won that trip to New Orleans.

Right after we won the state,I found out about 2 big corps shows in Southern California,so my best friend,the drum instructor and I,drove out to L.A. so I could see my first big time corps shows and I`ve been addicted ever since.The Santa Clara Vanguard pulled out The Bottle Dance that night and beat The BD for the first time in over a year!It was a great night for The SCV,but it was definitely the power and precision of The BD that did it for me.I have to mention their soprano line was rediculous.When they came at us with 5 soloists and Legend of the One Eyed Sailor in all its glory,there was no doubt who the pros were!That year The Kingsmen were still around,The Freelancers were great and The Troopers were still a force.Most summers after that I made it a point to catch those shows,including The Phantom doing the original Spartacus. I watched finals on PBS for several years when The Cadets charged onto the scene with their speed kills,Z-fold,eye candy.For me though,The BD were it,although I really loved The Scouts,The Phantom,The Cadets (especially that Mountain King stuff) and The Bridgemen.I never was a huge SCV fan,but I`ve always had a lot of respect for them.

Then The Star of Indiana happened.They pulled the wool over everyone`s eyes for one title,but then people realized that they weren`t a field show,they were a modern dance troup much better suited for a Broadway Stage.It was during this time period that changes were occurring.It used to be that it really didn`t matter what kind of show you played.as long as you brought the biggest,baddest,hornline with you.It was during this stretch that The BD really got jobbed by the judges a few times.I was at finals in Jackson,when The Scouts played Strawberry Soup,in the pouring rain,just before The BD played it.The Cavaliers beat The BD that year with a 3rd grade Bartok brass program!The highlight of that night though,was when Phantom played Amazing Grace leaving retreat,talk about goose bumps!!

I have never played in a group that satisfies judges to the extent that The BD does,but I have been in a marching band that received a standing ovation from 90,000.I know it must be very gratifying to achieve the level of excellence and artistry that The BD have over the last 2 seasons,but I`ll stick with that standing ovation.I`ve never performed for judges even in competition,first and foremost,I`ve always played for the audience,and their response was always the payoff.

Every time I watch drum corps I picture myself as a soloist for The BD,until this year.This year there was only one corps I wanted to be a member of,and that was The Madison Scouts.They were the one group that connected with the crowd.I saw it and felt it 2000 miles away at a theater in Tucson.The BD has raised the bar of the art form to a whole new level where the judges have pushed them,but their show was not as enjoyable as the one I saw in 1978.Drum corps is competitive field music,as an art form it still needs to be entertaining.General effect needs to be a major percentage of the score.Effect being a key word that implies that the passing of emotion to the audience is a factor.So if the judges and the fans can`t get closer together in what they are looking for the activity is going to be relegated to a fringe,esoteric fan base.Drum corps needs to learn from marching band and start playing for the audience instead of the judges.

[BRASSO]

So then, anyone who expresses bitterness over the disappearance of nearly one thousand drum and bugle corps and their related fanbases and all the nearby hometown competitions and the disenfranchisement of anyone today who has neither the money or the connections to be part of today's drum-and-brass-band activity automatically labels that person as a trolling has-been, or worse, a trolling never-was, and with the implication therewith that person has absolutely nothing to offer the current participants . Got it.

It isn't "all about the kids", it's about all the kids.

Pretty much. Anyone who CONSTANTLY comes to DCP, posts the same tired arguments about how much better drum corps was in the 70's when hundreds of corps toured locally on a shoestring budget with minimal funding and (gasp) folded due to lack of funds and organization while at the same time feeling the need to disparage, insult, and tear down current drum corps designers, directors, staffers and corps every chance they get (current designers, directors, staffers etc who are doing FAR more for the activity than the complainers are doing from their couch) is indeed a bitter has-been troll. I'm glad you understand

If someone gets " tired " reading people's opinion on DCP then just take a break, or go onto another thread, or whatever. Also ,you have no knowledge at all of what other's who might disagree with your opinion have done, nor might be doing now, to support the activity. Any poster on DCP that disparages other posters simply because of those posters expressing their opinion, and then says that the complaints come from those posters on " their coach " is nothing less than a " troll " that is engaging in " trolling " themselves. We have no idea what " trolls " have done in Drum Corps. Some might be trolling from" their Coach" telling us how much they love what DCI is doing these days, yet never marched too. We just don't know. So it's a better idea to take issue with the position, post your disagreements, but not to disparage other posters personally with your attack on them as " trolls "... or just go for a walk if something that is said here, offends you somehow. DCP should be about diversity of opinion, and tolerance of opposing views, no ? Nobody here is calling YOU " a troll"right now. It might be a good idea for you to not personally attack DCP 'ers who simply might disagree with you on an issue so as to not being seen as a" troll " yourself.

Edited October 22, 2010 by BRASSO

[JamMan]

capusctrump, you forgot to say something...

[Jeff Ream]

i think he said a lot

[Tito John]

Just read the original post--great stuff! Even if you don't agree with it, you need an attitude check if some of the points didn't bring a smile! :D