after seeing Star of Indiana Alum

[BAC oboist]

I mentioned to the Mass. Music Educators' Association that I thought we should combine the All-State orchestra and chorus and have the kids perform Praise to the Pagan Gods in Boston Symphony Hall, with John Williams conducting. "The logistics alone would cause me to throw something heavy at you," was the Executive Treasurer's response. That was 2002. We have a new Executive Treasurer. Maybe I'll try again.

[Medeabrass]

I don't know if this is anyone else's experience, but nothing has ever moved me as much as my very first drum corps experience. I had never even seen it on video and I got to see SCV's Carmen and Star's Belshazzar's front and center 50 yard line 3/4 of the way up on the first deck. It was the perfect convergence of circumstances I suppose, but nothing since has measured up for me. It's like your first of anything. Subsequent experiences are fantastic but will never be able to make that same ground shaking psychological impact as the first.

I think partly because I have marched drum corps and have, for better or worse, been expertly trained to hear and see faults, I have had to learn to "deprogram" myself and learn to experience and be in the moment of a corp's performance. I also think that because of all of the great drum corps I have been exposed to, I have become "numb to excellence." I no longer compare a corps' show to my crappy highschool band but to some of the greatest performances that will ever be put on turf.

I have problems going to the really big regionals now, because by the time the last 5 or 6 corps come on, I've already been way too "over exposed." I sit there and intellectually know it's fantastic but am almost already spent viscerally.

[supersop]

I don't know if this is anyone else's experience, but nothing has ever moved me as much as my very first drum corps experience. I had never even seen it on video and I got to see SCV's Carmen and Star's Belshazzar's front and center 50 yard line 3/4 of the way up on the first deck. It was the perfect convergence of circumstances I suppose, but nothing since has measured up for me. It's like your first of anything. Subsequent experiences are fantastic but will never be able to make that same ground shaking psychological impact as the first.

I think partly because I have marched drum corps and have, for better or worse, been expertly trained to hear and see faults, I have had to learn to "deprogram" myself and learn to experience and be in the moment of a corp's performance. I also think that because of all of the great drum corps I have been exposed to, I have become "numb to excellence." I no longer compare a corps' show to my crappy highschool band but to some of the greatest performances that will ever be put on turf.

I have problems going to the really big regionals now, because by the time the last 5 or 6 corps come on, I've already been way too "over exposed." I sit there and intellectually know it's fantastic but am almost already spent viscerally.

I feel your pain. I'm totally in the same boat. So, I guess I'll take this opportunity to illustrate the great divide between us dino's and the new kids on the block. I have seen several arguments about using great source material that stands on it's own and then building a program around it (OLD SCHOOL).

While sitting in initial brainstorm meetings for a winter drumline I was teaching this past season, something struck me right upside the head. The blatant difference between the old way and the new way was explained to me as such:

"See that's the problem with you Dan ..... you still want to pick all this awesome music, splice a show together and then worry about the concept after the fact. You have to pick something simple for a total concept first if you want to be successful in this day and age. Pick the number like "3" done by Vanguard. Steps .... a letter, colors, a season ... it doesn't matter. You have to pick this Visual concept and then find source material that we can work into the overall design".

My jaw hit the floor. I had never worked with someone that I was at total opposite ends of the spectrum from a design philosophy standpoint. I then went through my mental catalogue of just about every show in recent memory .. and they all fell under this design philosophy. Concept first ... visual second .... music third. I suddenly felt quite ill.

Us Dino's firmly believe that great source material can make a great show .. and the visual will just magically work its way into the program .. and in truth it really is magical when it's done right. Madison did a show based on this philosophy this year and the crowd ate them up. BD went with a "Concept" and rammed in a bunch of music that fit the "mood" of that concept to a T. Concept first, visual second, music third.

And there is the great divide. If this is truly what is expected of designers today, it's no wonder we don't see more SCV 87, Suncoast 85, Madison 88, Phantom 89, Star 90, Cavies 87 ... etc etc etc.

What WE EXPECT from a great drum corps show is no longer part of the recipe for success in modern drum corps, WGI, BOA, USSBA, you name it. The New School just doesn't understand our logic anymore. The divide is so wide, it makes it nearly impossible to enjoy modern shows for much more than a few corps .. just as my friend said in the quote above.

These shows don't connect with us anymore because the corps are trying to connect on a conceptual level rather than a visceral level. Music is not the key focus ... even though it's the most important thing to the masses. All we can do is hope that the tide swings the other way as drum corps takes it natural cycle ........... if they stop tinkering with things in the board room .... I think we'll get back to some great source material married to great visual rather than the inverse.

That is all.

[Grumpy]

Am I the only one that noticed this...during championships this year, as he always does, Brandt introduced each corps "performing their program..." followed by the "name" or "concept" of their show. The ONE exception was Madison...because they never attached a "title" or "concept" to their show. They just took some good old drum corps music and then ripped our faces off. Who got the loudest ovations all week (in fact, all season?)? Hint: Not the corps with all the mirrors on the field, or the ones with an annoying "drum major" playing with plastic rifles, or the ones that were twitching around during the pre-show like they had bugs.

To the poster who mentioned that Star was booed when they played "Medea"...Star wasn't getting booed because of WHAT they played, Star was getting booed because: a)####, they were good; b)shame on them, a drum corps that is sponsored by a generous benefactor who happens to run successful businesses and can afford it. Although I didn't care for the music right out of the gate at the time (I never booed them, nor any other corps that I have seen), I have grown to become quite fond of it and although I certainly am not a music scholar, this sounds like an incredible difficult musical book. To perform at the level they did at the time (and re-created this year in Indy), all I can say is

[skajerk]

No one in drum corps land ever heard of Biebl before Phantom, yet it is wildly popular now. Again, the genre means NOTHING. You have to pick great source music, arrange it well, and people will like it, even if it's not performed at the highest levels.

hmmm... Guess DCA doesn't count since we (Renegades) played it in '03 and '05

Edited August 30, 2010 by skajerk

[NakedEye]

I don't know if this is anyone else's experience, but nothing has ever moved me as much as my very first drum corps experience. I had never even seen it on video and I got to see SCV's Carmen and Star's Belshazzar's front and center 50 yard line 3/4 of the way up on the first deck. It was the perfect convergence of circumstances I suppose, but nothing since has measured up for me. It's like your first of anything. Subsequent experiences are fantastic but will never be able to make that same ground shaking psychological impact as the first.

I think this is generally true, and results in much of the "in my day" blather that we see on here. That being said, I also had perfect seats for my first viewing of Star '90, though it was not my first show - I had been to several shows over the previous couple of years. Even so, the opening/first movement of Belshazzar still remains my standard as the best thing I have ever seen. It's just so good that nothing has knocked it off the pedestal for me all this time later. I was reminded of this by the little snippet the alumni corps did.

Phantom 2003 and the Canon was close, but not quite there.

No matter how technically excellent the "sound bite" style of show programming may be, with the constant cutting of melodies and moments, it simply does not generate the level of effect and response that a sustained build or a musical moment that is allowed to resonate will. This is not limited to drum corps. Beyonce's Single Ladies video became a worldwide sensation because it avoided the typical video construction of ADD clips changing every few seconds and instead went with one idea, filmed to appear as a single, continuous take. It was hugely effective and people flipped out over it.

If you carefully bring people on a journey with you, they will respond to what you're doing. If you throw distractions at them every step of the way, they'll end up shutting down before the end and forget everything they've just seen.

[SACMellos2010]

Grumpy - Thanks for the kudos and that was not a "grumpy"response:)

On original works I think the work Frank Sullivan is doing is great!!

[spirit7698]

Seriously now, how many people actually heard of Belshazzar's Feast before Star played it? I argued about this back in the RAMD days, that if corps stick with AWESOME SOURCE MUSIC, no one's going to care about the genre, or possibly even the excellence of the performance. People here keep calling for corps to pick "music we know." What a bunch of BS that is.

I agree. Most of the music that I listened to ( for the first time and went out to by c.d.'s of the originals) in high school and after ( my drum corps years ) was because I saw corps play it, I watched videos from 70's - 92 of corps playing it or my corps mates/ instructors said " hey check this out ".

i.e. Kenton, Bartok, Debussy, Mahler, John Adams, Full Circle, Sir William Walton, Fela Kuti, Don Ellis, Buddy Rich, Pat Metheny, Airto Moreira... I mean the list could go on and on.

So much of that music has influenced me as a percussionist and musician ( aside from drum corps or marching band ).

Edited August 30, 2010 by spirit7698

[ShortAndFast]

...

Us Dino's firmly believe that great source material can make a great show .. and the visual will just magically work its way into the program .. and in truth it really is magical when it's done right. Madison did a show based on this philosophy this year and the crowd ate them up. BD went with a "Concept" and rammed in a bunch of music that fit the "mood" of that concept to a T. Concept first, visual second, music third.

And there is the great divide. If this is truly what is expected of designers today, it's no wonder we don't see more SCV 87, Suncoast 85, Madison 88, Phantom 89, Star 90, Cavies 87 ... etc etc etc.

What WE EXPECT from a great drum corps show is no longer part of the recipe for success in modern drum corps, WGI, BOA, USSBA, you name it. The New School just doesn't understand our logic anymore. The divide is so wide, it makes it nearly impossible to enjoy modern shows for much more than a few corps .. just as my friend said in the quote above.

These shows don't connect with us anymore because the corps are trying to connect on a conceptual level rather than a visceral level. Music is not the key focus ... even though it's the most important thing to the masses. All we can do is hope that the tide swings the other way as drum corps takes it natural cycle ........... if they stop tinkering with things in the board room .... I think we'll get back to some great source material married to great visual rather than the inverse.

That is all.

I think this is a pretty good summation of New School design, and the strongest criticism of it.

That said, I felt like 2010 was a year where many corps - Madison certainly, but also Crown, Phantom, Cadets, Blue Knights, etc. - were trying to find a balance. Presenting great music with good integrity in the arrangements, while still matching it to the kind of visual show concept that is required for competitive success. They didn't all succeed, but they were definitely trying. Hop had a good blog post on essentially this point last offseason, but I'm not finding it with Google right now.

The pendulum will swing back the other way if the corps want it to.

[A Cavalier TDY]

No one in drum corps land ever heard of Biebl before Phantom, yet it is wildly popular now. Again, the genre means NOTHING. You have to pick great source music, arrange it well, and people will like it, even if it's not performed at the highest levels.

Not true. Renegades played that piece in their show back in 2005 (I'm pretty sure I have the year right).