Corps Moving back to "G" Horns

[eric24]

Not a smart financial decision by a brand new organization. Why spend money on horns that's become obsolete when the current product you have are the status quo of the activity. See I'm afraid in about three years this corps will decide to go back to Bb horns and will try to raise money in need of this request and overlook other needed expenses elseware in order to keep the corps financially sound. At this point when the corps folds.............everyone at DP Planet will criticize this organization about another poor business decision and now another corps has folded. Make plans long-terms which keeps corps new corps around the activity for years rather than some QUICK FLASH IN THE PAN IDEA. We need more drum corps in this activity........not less.

[fleurghost]

Not a smart financial decision by a brand new organization. Why spend money on horns that's become obsolete when the current product you have are the status quo of the activity. See I'm afraid in about three years this corps will decide to go back to Bb horns and will try to raise money in need of this request and overlook other needed expenses elseware in order to keep the corps financially sound. At this point when the corps folds.............everyone at DP Planet will criticize this organization about another poor business decision and now another corps has folded. Make plans long-terms which keeps corps new corps around the activity for years rather than some QUICK FLASH IN THE PAN IDEA. We need more drum corps in this activity........not less.

I think that's because they currently don't own instruments. Much of their horns were mismatched, and I believe borrowed. I don't think "g" horns are obsolete, I feel more in the lines that they are not used as much because the "bflat" horn manufacturers were willing to give HUGE discounts for artist endorsements. And from EVERYTHING I've read about Kanstul is that they produce quality instruments, that are cheaper that most b flat instruments to begin with.

I also think that by saying they will fail in a few years is something that could be directly related to the fact that no one supports many of the corps today. I have various friends that all have marched, many of them are in my same positions, our corps don't exist anymore. I've asked them who they give to..... Some have said Madison. Not that I don't like Madison, but I mean COME ON with 75 years of alumni, the souvie revenue, the revenue from members and prospective members, DCI pay, grants, fundraisers... THEY MAKE MORE THAN ENOUGH! If you are struggling on running a corps on $800,000- $1 MILLION then take a look at yourself. There are corps that run on less than $100K....

So when you donate, try and give a little to some of the small corps, that can GREATLY benefit from what you are doing an giving. We all talk about a long term financial success for a corps, I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!! But have you even given a buck to this corps? And what hurts giving a buck to them? Can you not spare one measly buck?

So I truly doubt in a few years they will say.. I screwed up lets go back to bflat... most likely they'll say "at least we have GREAT horns" that a great deal of other corps don't have, and we sound MUCH bigger and darker on the field. Saying they are obsolete is like saying Blue Saints and the Racine Scouts are obsolete, in your eyes they may be, but I do believe they are the LONGEST CONTINUALLY OPERATING CORPS IN THE WORLD! You cannot count Cadets either (although Racine is STILL older) because they change their #### organization every other year.

[audiodb]

Correct: The rule is any-key. The corps' did not "have" to switch, nor were they "forced" to switch, to Bb horns.

Indeed. They don't "have to" compete, either.

I'm in no mood to rehash the whole debate about "optional" equipment. Ask yourself, with all the "options" out there, why every world-class corps uses the same array of equipment choices:

- Bb/F brass

- battery and pit percussion

- amplified pit

- electronic instruments

As for resale value, that is a function of supply and demand. I understand that the market for G bugles is smaller....but so is the supply.

[Marimbakat]

I think that's because they currently don't own instruments. Much of their horns were mismatched, and I believe borrowed. I don't think "g" horns are obsolete, I feel more in the lines that they are not used as much because the "bflat" horn manufacturers were willing to give HUGE discounts for artist endorsements. And from EVERYTHING I've read about Kanstul is that they produce quality instruments, that are cheaper that most b flat instruments to begin with.

I also think that by saying they will fail in a few years is something that could be directly related to the fact that no one supports many of the corps today. I have various friends that all have marched, many of them are in my same positions, our corps don't exist anymore. I've asked them who they give to..... Some have said Madison. Not that I don't like Madison, but I mean COME ON with 75 years of alumni, the souvie revenue, the revenue from members and prospective members, DCI pay, grants, fundraisers... THEY MAKE MORE THAN ENOUGH! If you are struggling on running a corps on $800,000- $1 MILLION then take a look at yourself. There are corps that run on less than $100K....

So when you donate, try and give a little to some of the small corps, that can GREATLY benefit from what you are doing an giving. We all talk about a long term financial success for a corps, I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!! But have you even given a buck to this corps? And what hurts giving a buck to them? Can you not spare one measly buck?

So I truly doubt in a few years they will say.. I screwed up lets go back to bflat... most likely they'll say "at least we have GREAT horns" that a great deal of other corps don't have, and we sound MUCH bigger and darker on the field. Saying they are obsolete is like saying Blue Saints and the Racine Scouts are obsolete, in your eyes they may be, but I do believe they are the LONGEST CONTINUALLY OPERATING CORPS IN THE WORLD! You cannot count Cadets either (although Racine is STILL older) because they change their #### organization every other year.

Thank you fleurghost. I second that. I might not have been in the Corps community as long as anyone for that matter, but if everyone gives a little here and there, everyone benefits. I myself have given to the Corps on more than one occassion, and i'll be doing it a lot more too.

This is where you can do it for Platinum.

http://platinumdrumcorps.org/custom.htm

Thanks to all that are involved

[MCL_Contra]

Indeed. They don't "have to" compete, either.

Ask yourself, with all the "options" out there, why every world-class corps uses the same array of equipment choices:

Because they are lazy. Most, if not all of the top echelon corps sounded better hands down on G bugles than they do on Bb. They simply don't want to have to teach anyone how to listen and tune. Plus the fact that all of the current manufacturers are putting tons of pressure on them to purchase their horns all in an effort to increase sales to the high school and college band programs. My guess is that if all of these corps went back to Gs for even one season they would see an increase in membership, revenues and FANS!

[84BDsop]

Because they are lazy. Most, if not all of the top echelon corps sounded better hands down on G bugles than they do on Bb. They simply don't want to have to teach anyone how to listen and tune.

So you don't have to listen or tune if you're on Bb?? That would certainly explain the awful tonality out of Cadets going into their company front in 2000....on Bb horns.

Plus the fact that all of the current manufacturers are putting tons of pressure on them to purchase their horns all in an effort to increase sales to the high school and college band programs.

You can hardly blame instrument makers for wanting to increase their sales, tho...I'm in business myself...I need every sale I can get. And you can't deny that the sudden increase of corps in the Sr ranks was possible largely because of the glut of used Gs on the market as the Jrs switched over.

My guess is that if all of these corps went back to Gs for even one season they would see an increase in membership, revenues and FANS!

I could see that...but I don't see that switch happening unless a G market opens up far larger than drum corps.

[MCL_Contra]

So you don't have to listen or tune if you're on Bb?? That would certainly explain the awful tonality out of Cadets going into their company front in 2000....on Bb horns.

Ok, so not exactly what I meant. I mean that a high school or college student that normally plays a Bb horn DOES have to adjust to a G horn. It's not that hard but you have to do it.

You can hardly blame instrument makers for wanting to increase their sales, tho...I'm in business myself...I need every sale I can get. And you can't deny that the sudden increase of corps in the Sr ranks was possible largely because of the glut of used Gs on the market as the Jrs switched over.

I don't blame them at all for doing so. I just think it's a shame they have to force an activity with tons of history to change just to exist.

I could see that...but I don't see that switch happening unless a G market opens up far larger than drum corps.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Sad.

[84BDsop]

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Sad.

About the only way I could see it happening would be if sufficient numbers of high schools (and to a lesser extent, colleges) elected to transition to Gs when they replace or otherwise buy new inventory....if nothing else, buying Kanstul Gs would certainly be cheaper than buying similar quality Bb...but that ALSO depends on those schools being willing to pay for good gear instead of going totally cheap....lotsa luck there.

On the other hand....I think it kinda happened with the drum market when the free-floating snares came on the market.....so it's possible....not LIKELY, but possble.

[Marimbakat]

About the only way I could see it happening would be if sufficient numbers of high schools (and to a lesser extent, colleges) elected to transition to Gs when they replace or otherwise buy new inventory....

Speaking as a former Teacher I wouldn't mind trying our hands a "G" horns strictly for the Marching band aspect of it. Yeah it would be a challenge on and transposition aspect of the instructor to provide the right music for the rest, but to give students a different challenge while also improving the sound, especially if it's a small band, would be something in of itself. The educational aspects are there for the taking.

Then you switch back to regulat Bb horns for the concert setting, Jazz Ensemble, etc. but use the g horns for a bigger sound in your marching band for recruitment in the program.

Did we mention?

http://www.platinumdrumcorps.org/gdrive.html

[BigW]

Speaking as a former Teacher I wouldn't mind trying our hands a "G" horns strictly for the Marching band aspect of it. Yeah it would be a challenge on and transposition aspect of the instructor to provide the right music for the rest, but to give students a different challenge while also improving the sound, especially if it's a small band, would be something in of itself. The educational aspects are there for the taking.

Then you switch back to regulat Bb horns for the concert setting, Jazz Ensemble, etc. but use the g horns for a bigger sound in your marching band for recruitment in the program.

Did we mention?

http://www.platinumdrumcorps.org/gdrive.html

It CAN be done. I've had hands on experience with a group that did it, and I think it worked very well for us in our situation. The transposition wasn't that big of an issue for us.