Corps Moving back to "G" Horns

[JimF-LowBari]

But can Kanstul market those G horns to universities, high schools, middle schools, professionals, ad infinitum? Kanstul is the only company left really trying trying to sell them in a market where nobody outside of some old school drum corps people want G horns; Of course they are cheaper due to in stock items that are currently still made by one company trying to stay alive with an older product.

Kanstul is trying to stay alive? And if you order a G from Kanstul, they don't blow the dust off a case in the back. From what I've seen they are made new just like the Bbs.

And IIRC the difference between current G and Bb is length of leadpipe. Heckuva price difference for that.....

Edited September 14, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[see me]

"G" horns..........ahhhhhhh.....dream coming back! Good luck Platinum

[Phirefenix]

The bugles were nifty. I enjoyed playing in a G hornline all the way to a championship in 2007 while the rest of the field was playing Bb's. However I don't see the activity ever going back en mass. Plenty of room for groups here, and there to do it. However it takes time to train a G hornline properly, and you need a mature group to understand the work involved. Yes the top 5 sounded great on bugles. Star of Indiana still sounded as good on two valve horns as a modern line from the top 5 to my ears.

But put aside the rose colored glasses. My first few years in a small hornline with inexperienced players were rough. They are more difficult to work with, and younger lines struggled early in the season. Sometimes we got better. Sometimes we didn't. I'm speaking from personal experience here, but I believe the switch to Bb horns was a great boost for the smaller corps. They could more easily put together a competitive product, and that alone raised the bar for the activity. From 2001 to 2007 I witnessed the change firsthand from all G hornlines to being in the last G hornline to win. During that time the quality of the groups around me in warm ups was far better on average in the later years.

With an eye towards the experience for the members themselves I recommend Bb's. There are still going to be rough hornlines out there, but saddling them with horns that undeniably were hell to tune given any number of conditions won't work. Far be it from me to tell someone how to run their corps, but I think everyone gets a tad nostalgic when this whole G vs. Bb discussion pops up. The activity succeeded in the old days for the same reason it succeeds now:

Innovation.

Fewer corps? Fewer tickets sold? The economy sucks. Disposable income is scarce all around. But the kids who can march, and the groups that can go to shows still innovate, and put out ever more impressive products. DCI is not approaching it's death bed anytime soon. The activity is evolving at a rate that mirrors the rapid rate at which an entire key of brass instruments evolved 40+ years ago. The staffs are competent, and the members are willing. Applaud them for it, and enjoy the sonic treat that hornlines still do offer. Regiment still sounds like chocolate, BD can still scream, and Cadets are balls loud.

[geluf]

Because they are lazy. Most, if not all of the top echelon corps sounded better hands down on G bugles than they do on Bb.

Did you really just type that? DCI didn't get off G fast *enough* for my ears.

They simply don't want to have to teach anyone how to listen and tune. Plus the fact that all of the current manufacturers are putting tons of pressure on them to purchase their horns all in an effort to increase sales to the high school and college band programs. My guess is that if all of these corps went back to Gs for even one season they would see an increase in membership, revenues and FANS!

Not even close. Students use Bbs. Professional players used Bbs and Cs (with occasional use of others). The Bb trumpet is ubiquitous. It is the standard of musical ensembles and has been for years. Drum Corps was a hold out based on nothing more than tradition. There is no reason to make students transition to a G instrument for a summer when they will never use them again. Even if they enter the music field, they will almost never, ever, have a reason to be using a G bugle. While they will most certainly be using their Bb instrument constantly.

No one but traditionalists care what type of horn is being used. You won't win new fans by advertising "Now With G Bugles!". No one cares. John Q. Public couldn't care less.

But I'll tell you what they *do* care about: Intonation. Because most people can hear that. And the intonation on G bugles is awful. Even the top lines from the 80's and 90's couldn't nail it completely.

Loud is useless if its loud and ugly.

[geluf]

*edit: double post*

Edited September 19, 2010 by geluf

[Stu]

Not even close. Students use Bbs. Professional players used Bbs and Cs (with occasional use of others). The Bb trumpet is ubiquitous. It is the standard of musical ensembles and has been for years. Drum Corps was a hold out based on nothing more than tradition. There is no reason to make students transition to a G instrument for a summer when they will never use them again. Even if they enter the music field, they will almost never, ever, have a reason to be using a G bugle. While they will most certainly be using their Bb instrument constantly.

No one but traditionalists care what type of horn is being used. You won't win new fans by advertising "Now With G Bugles!". No one cares. John Q. Public couldn't care less.

But I'll tell you what they *do* care about: Intonation. Because most people can hear that. And the intonation on G bugles is awful. Even the top lines from the 80's and 90's couldn't nail it completely.

Loud is useless if its loud and ugly.

Let me start by saying that I agree with you; the argument to use Bb is stronger than to use G. And I am a Bb advocate. However, I would like to pose a question to you on the logic of one of your reasoning's.

Here is your statement: "There is no reason to make students transition to a G instrument for a summer when they will never use them again. Even if they enter the music field, they will almost never, ever, have a reason to be using a G bugle. While they will most certainly be using their Bb instrument constantly."

Let's apply this same reasoning to tonal bass drumming: No percussionist outside of the marching activity will ever use that skill. Let's apply this reasoning to marching snares and tenors: While some rudiments transfer well to drum set, most of the extreme hybrids with weird names like "green tomato sandwich paper shredder off the left" are rather useless in the commercial world of drumming; and for that matter, the skill of marching itself is not an action taken by most pros. So, using your logic, there would also be no reason to make students learn those items when they will never use them again. How are those any different than teaching a person to play a G horn?

Edited September 19, 2010 by Stu

[wturner901]

G bugles sound loud and ugly to me. But hey, some people like the volume..

[MelloHorn13]

G bugles sound loud and ugly to me. But hey, some people like the volume..

After ten years of drum corps, I still can't believe how closed-minded some people are.

[MelloHorn13]

Here's a question for some of you:

What's wrong with holding on to tradition?

Edited September 20, 2010 by MelloHorn13

[HornsUp]

Let's apply this same reasoning to tonal bass drumming: No percussionist outside of the marching activity will ever use that skill.

Better yet: How many professional dancers will ever have to spin a prop rifle?

But how many professional musicians will need to utilize transposition skills?

Edited September 20, 2010 by HornsUp