Championships lost to penalties

[ajlisko]

*waggles hand* That's what I'm talking about...I'd rather read about something mroe significant than a 1/10th tick....like an overtime penalty (81 Cavies at Whitewater, for example) or a field boundary violation....a REAL penalty, not a tick that's called a penalty.

Otherwise you could argue that a corps that won simply got less overall penalties than the corps they beat.

I believe St. Kevin's recieved a boundary penalty at the 1960 VFW Nationals ... I'm not sure if it was in prelims or finals ... but, the story is that, beyond the penalty itself, there were major glitches in both the drill and the music as a result of members being distracted ... maybe Northern Thunder had something on that one ...

Here's something I forund on St. Kevin's site: The Corps was trading off wins and seconds throughout the whole year and then came the “Nationals” in Detroit. Ah, Detroit, Michigan, a city and state to be forever imbedded in this writer’s memory and that of all of the old diehards from “Kevins.”

Talk about your omens, how about this one- St Kevins stayed at the Cavalier Motel, attended Mass at the Blessed Sacrament Church and lined up for the parade on Garfield Avenue—eerie or what?

Front page of the Detroit newspaper has color photo of St Kevin’s big guard –curb to curb- in color.

First in the prelims and rolling to a National Championship easily, HEY, what’s going on here? Who are those people on the other side of the sideline? Wham Bam- tick- tick- tick- tick- there goes the National title. Should have been more careful in lining up on the starting line.

:-)

Edited September 29, 2010 by ajlisko

[flamparadiddlediddle]

double - remove

Edited September 29, 2010 by flamparadiddlediddle

[flamparadiddlediddle]

1968 Royal Airs ? vfw

[bill]

A penalty didn't cost them the title; it dropped them down a few places but they were never in 1st place without the penalty to begin with. I have the recaps (and was there). And Tony S. was drunk as a skunk.............

1968 Royal Airs ? vfw

Edited September 29, 2010 by bill

[FrankBeMe]

I just took a look at my recaps of national championship shows going back to the 1920s. Believe it or not, penalties were extremely rare in the 1920s through 1956. Then, for some bizarre reason, at the 1957 American Legion Nationals, 28 of the 30 senior corps were assessed penalties. And at the 1959 Legion Nationals, 22 of 24 junior corps were given penalties.

I wonder if there was some sort of rule change regarding inspections. By the time I started marching, VFW had an inspection caption while Legion took off points from somewhere, which were probably tenths in penalties?? I wonder if 1957 is when Legion started that?

[Northern Thunder]

I believe St. Kevin's recieved a boundary penalty at the 1960 VFW Nationals ... I'm not sure if it was in prelims or finals ... but, the story is that, beyond the penalty itself, there were major glitches in both the drill and the music as a result of members being distracted ... maybe Northern Thunder had something on that one ...

Yes, that was a boundary penalty (2.0) for St. Kevin's. Without the penalty they would have been 2nd place, just 0.1 behind 1st place Blessed Sacrament. The penalty dropped them to 3rd.

[flamparadiddlediddle]

1968 Royal Airs ? vfw

The write up in "A History of Drum & Bugle Corps Volume 2" could be misleading. Always best to check the recaps if they are available. 1968 is incorrect.

[IllianaLancerContra]

That might be the one I was referring to....what was the penalty for??

Again....I would not count a tick for an equipment drop to be a penalty.

It was the way the sheets were written back then - for example, a drum judge could give back a piece of dropped guard or brass equipment, they marked it at bottom of the sheet as a 'penalty' to distinguish it from a drum tick. If a M&M judge gave it back it would be just a 'normal' tick...

[Paul Milano]

I wonder if there was some sort of rule change regarding inspections. By the time I started marching, VFW had an inspection caption while Legion took off points from somewhere, which were probably tenths in penalties?? I wonder if 1957 is when Legion started that?

If I remember correctly, the penalities for many of the senior corps at the 1957 American Legion Nationals revolved around UNDERAGE members. Back then the senior corps had lower age limits (must be 21) and maybe even some veteran status (having served in the military). I know that there was definitely one year where they hammered a bunch of senior corps for sneaking in younger (better?) members. My good friend, the late Bob Hoehn Jr., was marching with Harvey Seeds Senior Corps from Florida and was caught (he was 15 or 16) along with others. It may have been in 1957. He went on to march with the Chicago Cavaliers (1960 - 62) and won the baritone individual championships a couple times.

Ironic, I know, that a future Cavalier got his corps disqualified for abusing the "age limitation" rule!

[FrankBeMe]

If I remember correctly, the penalities for many of the senior corps at the 1957 American Legion Nationals revolved around UNDERAGE members. Back then the senior corps had lower age limits (must be 21) and maybe even some veteran status (having served in the military). I know that there was definitely one year where they hammered a bunch of senior corps for sneaking in younger (better?) members. My good friend, the late Bob Hoehn Jr., was marching with Harvey Seeds Senior Corps from Florida and was caught (he was 15 or 16) along with others. It may have been in 1957. He went on to march with the Chicago Cavaliers (1960 - 62) and won the baritone individual championships a couple times.

Ironic, I know, that a future Cavalier got his corps disqualified for abusing the "age limitation" rule!

Later on they relaxed the rules on the number of military vets that had to be in a corps as there just weren't as many joining the Legion or just being too old to march anymore. They did after awhile change it to where someone could march if their dad was in the Legion. But that is interesting about underage penalties..I never knew that!!

You know Monk's sons Tom and Rich right? The three of them use to come up to Menominee to work with us in the Northernaires in the early 70s! Monk was a great guy....but he turned some of our parents off during one rehearsal when he came running out on the field pointing at the American flag squad yelling "That's a f----ing 2 pt penalty!!" It was funny!

Edited September 30, 2010 by FrankBeMe