Kamarag Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Here's an idea I'll toss out to you (and you can toss it back). Let's make it interesting.... Drop the competing order idea. In other words...have a lottery to when each corps goes on for prelims. I think the way it is done now really gives the judges the idea of where to put each corps. Make the judges work too, they do get paid to do that. It's possible to see Bucs as the first corps on in prelims and Governaires the last. NOW.....this will also keep more fans in the seats from start to finish. How many people wait until the last 6 corps to go and watch the show? This way the "A" Class corps will get the same crowds as the Open. That to me sounds more fair for ALL corps. It's already fair. You want a late performance spot at prelims? Fine. Earn it with a strong end to the regular season. Those spots aren't simply handed out. Nothing could be more fair. The worst ting DCI ever did was go to a more random performance spot format. It was horrible at Finals in 1988, and it was horrible at quarterfinals in 1989. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 On the issue of parades, I think those against a preview parade situation are missing the point entirely. However, a few things would need to change in order for it to be advantageous to the corps. 1. A Preview Parade should put more butts in the seats at prelims and finals = more revenue 2. Souvies have to be in a better spot so that the people selling them can work the crowd- Closer to the gate / way better visibility would be better. 3. Yes there should be compensation for the parade. The added revenue to the events that charge ticket prices should cover the costs. Prelims order: If you want to do a lottery draw, it should be done within your own class. If a Class A corps wins and is scored higher than 11th place overall in open class, they should be allowed to move into Open Class on Finals night or have the option to stay Class A. This gives the corps the option to have a chance at winning a world title ... or getting a better seat at the table within DCA (voting rights etc.) Sure, they can be recognized as the 10th or 9th best in DCA overall .... but that doesn't mean they're an Open Class corps. With these points in mind, I think it is up to DCA to set up a rule on how this is handled, and I think there already is one. Either give them the choice, or give them no choice. If they make top 10, make them accept Open class status for finals. Otherwise, if they declare Class A going in ... they should stay that way. This is very different from DCI's past formats and upcoming format for 2011. Why? Because it is not a 4 day event with prelims finals for Class A, with higher ranked corps moving on to Open Class Prelims on Saturday. That's not how this event is set up, so there is no point in stripping a title chance just to make top 10 (unless that is what the corps wants). Personally, if I were a Class A corps director that won prelims and made top 10 in Open ........ I would go for the title. It's a far better recruiting tool and warrants better offers from sponsors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Just a question or more..... Are the crowds smaller for "A" class prelims? If so wouldn't it be beneficial for all "A" class corps and the lower tier Open corps to have a bigger crowd to view them at prelims? Does the crowd get bigger with the top 6 at prelims? If I were in an "A" Class corps, I would love to perform in front of a huge crowd rather than a small crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Hi John! I respect your comments. I would like to say that, IMO, DCA fans are different than DCI fans. I believe (my opinion) that DCA fans are more sociable with one another. I go to a DCI show in Buffalo and the people that I see are either former members from my junior days or all my friends from DCA corps and alumni. Go to a DCA show and everyone knows each other...kind of like Cheers! LOL My post was to make prelims special for ALL corps. Mix it up, make the judges work for their money. If a corps wows them at prelims and is slotted in the #3 position and ends up #5 after finals...doesn't that make the finals more exciting? How many times do you go to a show and you basically know who will take 1st, 2nd,3rd, etc. Finals this year and previous years are so predictable. I could sit at home, look at scores each week and at prelims, I could be 98% accurate with positions. Finals is even more predictable. Put some EXCITEMENT back into Championships! Parades are nice and do some PR for the show but it has to be done right....ideal parade route and full attendance by all corps to include other units from the area. I don't think that having the parade in the area of the stadium in Rochester would be ideal...but downtown would be great! In 1976 the NT Open had a parade that began at 4pm prior to "A" Class Finals. This parade started at the business district of North Tonawanda. "A" Finals were packed. This was a great PR move because tons of people saw all the corps that were participating and came to see both shows ("A" Class and Open Class the next evening). It's already fair. You want a late performance spot at prelims? Fine. Earn it with a strong end to the regular season. Those spots aren't simply handed out. Nothing could be more fair.The worst ting DCI ever did was go to a more random performance spot format. It was horrible at Finals in 1988, and it was horrible at quarterfinals in 1989. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Prelims order:If you want to do a lottery draw, it should be done within your own class. that I do agree with,........... With these points in mind, I think it is up to DCA to set up a rule on how this is handled, and I think there already is one. Either give them the choice, or give them no choice. If they make top 10, make them accept Open class status for finals. Otherwise, if they declare Class A going in ... they should stay that way. This is very different from DCI's past formats and upcoming format for 2011. Why? Because it is not a 4 day event with prelims finals for Class A, with higher ranked corps moving on to Open Class Prelims on Saturday. That's not how this event is set up, so there is no point in stripping a title chance just to make top 10 (unless that is what the corps wants). Personally, if I were a Class A corps director that won prelims and made top 10 in Open ........ I would go for the title. It's a far better recruiting tool and warrants better offers from sponsors. Maybe votes should be given to all finalists,.................10 Opens and 4 Class A votes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoti Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 What if no scores or placements were announced all season long? They could be sealed in a lock-box until Championship Weekend. Corps would go on in random order at all shows, including Prelims and Finals. All of the judges would be required to be at Prelims and Finals, stowed away in a secret location. The panels would be chosen randomly 15 minutes before the shows begin and taken incognito to the pressbox. This should keep all the judges from just "giving it" to the Buccaneers again because they are on last at Prelims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyroo Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Here's an idea I'll toss out to you (and you can toss it back). Let's make it interesting.... Drop the competing order idea. In other words...have a lottery to when each corps goes on for prelims. I think the way it is done now really gives the judges the idea of where to put each corps. Make the judges work too, they do get paid to do that. It's possible to see Bucs as the first corps on in prelims and Governaires the last. NOW.....this will also keep more fans in the seats from start to finish. How many people wait until the last 6 corps to go and watch the show? This way the "A" Class corps will get the same crowds as the Open. That to me sounds more fair for ALL corps. Now I'll wait for all those knives to come flying at me...but remember you asked for ideas on this post! I'm not so sure about mixing Class A and Open Class, but you've pointed out the way it was done way back in the mists of time. The stands were full first thing in the morning and generally stayed that way until the last dog was hung in the late afternoon. And both the audience and the corps members themselves were truly interested in the proceedings, in that the most common question of the day was, "Who, that might beat us, has yet to go on?" You couldn't wait for the "tote board" to change, to see who dropped down a slot. And then there was that collective groan when Corps X dropped off the board. Sure, we might go out for a hot dog during corps X's performance - knowing that they aren't a contender for the top ten - but folks were there. Other than mixing Class A and Open, this would probably be an eminently fair to go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) The stands were full first thing in the morning and generally stayed that way until the last dog was hung in the late afternoon. Obviously, you never attended the American Legion states show in Wildwood NJ the Saturday after Labor Day weekend. LOL. My first few years in junior corps, the show would start at some ungodly early hour.... first corps on the inspection line at 6:30 AM or so... and it seemed like the only people in the stands were the bus drivers and chaperones for the corps on the field. Edited October 4, 2010 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyroo Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Obviously, you never attended the American Legion states show in Wildwood NJ the Saturday after Labor Day weekend. LOL.My first few years in junior corps, the show would start at some ungodly early hour.... first corps on the inspection line at 6:30 AM or so... and it seemed like the only people in the stands were the bus drivers and chaperones for the corps on the field. True, Fran, I never did attend that particular show. However, any number of Legion Nationals, VFW Nationals, World Opens, and a few others that I either participated in or attended would see a decent crowd in the stands as early as 8:00 a.m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) True, Fran, I never did attend that particular show. However, any number of Legion Nationals, VFW Nationals, World Opens, and a few others that I either participated in or attended would see a decent crowd in the stands as early as 8:00 a.m. Heck.... at that Wildwood show back in the day, I don't think the bleachers at Maxwell Field held more than 50 people anyway. By the time the "big guns" (Garfield, Blessed Sacrament, Bridgemen, Blue Rock, Caballeros, etc.) went on, it was literally standing room-only there. That field, with the new grandstands and lighting, is much better now. Edited October 4, 2010 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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