On the Drastic Change in Arranging Style

[Lance]

In many ways, I enjoy the bastardized drum corps arrangement of pieces much more than the source music.

me too, oftentimes.

i see glimmers of a new thread on the horizon.

[DrillmanSop06]

No, I don't. I thought I made this clear, but apparently I didn't. I never made such a claim. The only mathematical claim I'm describing is a method for comparing the similarity of two different arrangements. I NEVER made the claim that you could scientificaly "prove" that one arrangement is inferior to the other.

This is getting really frustrating. Please, before you comment, make sure you understand the extent of my claim, and stop spreading misinformation about what I'm saying.

We were having a worthwile discussion about arranging style, let's try to get back on track.

LEAVE HROTHY ALONE!

I still disagree with the notion that time is somehow a factor in arranging. We can always arrange things differently. We're looking at the wrong dichotomy.

[drumno5]

I think there are alot of gems and alot of garbage on all of my CD's and DVD's. Suckiness knows no time period or era....nor does greatness.

Hear, hear; well said, friend.

DCImonkey's statement puts it in a nutshell. You can find great stuff as well as crap at any point along the drum corps timeline.

peace,

Fred O.

Edited November 18, 2010 by drumno5

[mingusmonk]

Hear, hear; well said, friend.

DCImonkey's statement puts it in a nutshell. You can find great stuff as well as crap at any point along the drum corps timeline.

peace,

Fred O.

Leave it to the pragmatic to kill a thread.

[corpsband]

Leave it to the pragmatic to kill a thread.

Seriously. What's up with that?

Hroth?

[Fran Haring]

agreed as well! I don't particularly care whether not an arranger is "faithful" to the original piece in drum corps as long as I enjoy the whole show.

Good point.

There are times when it is nice to hear the "faithful" version, though.

One example: I'm a Moody Blues fan. In 1994, when I heard the Glassmen do their Moody Blues show, I was disappointed with their "drum corps ending" to "Tuesday Afternoon." I was hoping I'd hear them do the beautiful "fadeout" ending from the original arrangement.

In fact, when I heard this at a show I was working, I inadvertently voiced my disapproval to this, out loud. Something like, "Oh man...that is just NOT right!!!!" Unfortunately, I was standing right next to the judges in the press box at the time. LOL. I did draw a glare from one judge. Oops.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Fran Haring

[corpsband]

Good point.

There are times when it is nice to hear the "faithful" version, though.

One example: I'm a Moody Blues fan. In 1994, when I heard the Glassmen do their Moody Blues show, I was disappointed with their "drum corps ending" to "Tuesday Afternoon." I was hoping I'd hear them do the beautiful "fadeout" ending from the original arrangement.

In fact, when I heard this at a show I was working, I inadvertently voiced my disapproval to this, out loud. Something like, "Oh man...that is just NOT right!!!!" Unfortunately, I was standing right next to the judges in the press box at the time. LOL. I did draw a glare from one judge. Oops.

For me faithful is not necessarily about transcribed but more about the character of the piece. Lot's of drum corps arrangements have been substantially different in the technical aspects but still remain 'faithful' to the original identity of the piece.

[TAFL]

What are you listening to? It must be something I haven't listened to, because I have listened to all of the DCI performances from 1972 till now and the music is better now than ever.

The very same. The music now is much less engaging, in general terms, I find.

Just because it isn't like the music was when you marched doesn't mean it is inferior. To say it is "inferior" shows that you do not really understand music. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's inferior. If you don't like it say so, but don't call it inferior.

Are you serious? In the event that you're not just trolling: All judgements of arrangements are, essentially, subjective. By the standards I (and others here) use in judging arrangements, most contemporary arrangements we hear on the field are lacking in many ways. Thus, we judge them inferior because they are inferior by our standards.

For you to offer that my judgement shows that I don't understnad music is so much fart gas; I can just as easily claim that you don't understand music, with just as much authority and evidence behind the claim. Indeed, had I eaten a burrito or two earlier today, I suspect my charge would have much greater ...um, impact.

[Jeff Ream]

Not delving into the science (or lack thereof). . .

But. . .

Your ears tell you what you need to know. . .

Here's a simple exercise.

1) Go listen to Barbra Streisand's version of "Happy Days Are Here Again". It's on the album "One Voice" from a concert recording in her back yard in 1987.

The Blue Devils played it in 1988 as their opener.

The Blue Devils played it again in 2009.

2) Go back and listen to Buddy Rich's "Channel One Suite" from the album "Mercy Mercy", recorded live at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas in 1968.

The Blue Devils played it in 1976, 1977 and 1986 in what many would call "authentic" form.

The Blue Devils played it again in 2002.

3) Go back and listen to the orchestral recordings of Kachaturian for "Spartacus" (I'd recommend Neeme Jarvi's version on Chandos recording label).

Phantom Regiment played it in 1981 and 1982.

Phantom Regiment played it again in 2008.

4) Go back on listen to Pat Metheny's "First Circle" from the album "First Circle".

Crossmen played this in 1998. (Yes, Blue Devils played it in 1985)

Crossmen played it again in 2010.

There are more examples I could give. I will not let my personal preferences for "lifting" or "arranging" or "music inspired by" come into play here. It is beside the point.

What is identifiable is the "faithfulness" of an arrangement to the original version.

I point this out, not to say which is better, but to fuel the idea that, indeed, it is possible to analyze which arrangements are more true to the original in terms of pacing, harmonic construction, tempo, etc.

Chuck Naffier

well stated sir

[drumno5]

Madison Scouts Alumni Reunion Project playing "The Way We Were."

This arrangement takes on a level of musical maturity dwarfing that of a lot of what was on the DCI top 12 field this past year.

I couldn't find the clip of which you speak, but I found and listened to a bunch of other MSARP online. Great stuff, and very engaging. I was not fortunate to hear it in person; I'm sure it was even better live.

But your remark regarding the "musical maturity" of the arrangement is very subjective, Hroth. And (typically - I suppose I should know what to expect by now ), asking the rhetorical question "why is that?" implies (to me, anyway) that you assume everyone reading your post agrees with you.

Lots of great stuff out there, old and new. Lots of different opinions. Vive la difference!

Fred O.