Jeff Ream Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 ..and meanwhile Nero is contemplating sending in the fire truck but is too busy trying to fit woodwinds into.... shields were not deployed in time captain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Not even close. I supported my contention with a fact (that the AL/VFW organized separate drum corps and marching band contests at the same point in time). You responded with no facts, no support....just the basic "no, I'm right and you're wrong". Not willing to look past your own narrow perspective? You weren't there either, Mike. 1. I'm talking late 1950s. You weren't involved until 1964. 2. There were hundreds of corps, and hundreds of shows each year all over the USA. What tiny percentage of them were you personally involved in? 3. Listening to old "records" (or master recordings, in my case) tells me precisely what I said it does....that not every GSC show was held in a parking lot with 50 spectators. Whether the audience numbered 500 or 5,000 cannot be determined from these particular recordings....but it sure wasn't 50. 4. As for "old clippings"....no, I have taken the time to study the activity's history, gather a library of drum corps publications from back in the day, and compile data, in order to expand my perspective beyond my eyewitness experience. What have you done to expand your view? Obviously, those head counts are rounded to the nearest thousand. So "14,000" might only be 13,500....or it could have been 14,500. Does that matter in this context? In case I wasn't sufficiently clear....these were shows with ordinary five-corps lineups. I'm not saying they had ordinary attendance. Similarly, I wouldn't presume that the 48,000 drawn to 1958 Legion Nationals was ordinary....nor was the typical late-1950s Dream crowd of between 20,000 and 30,000. But for those who have no idea what drum corps' drawing potential was back then, it is interesting to learn. 'Ordinary' shows just did not draw the numbers you mention. Sorry...you are wrong, IMO. Listening to 1950's era recordings is what you go on? How ever does that tell you anything about how many people attended a show? I have a Stetson Richmond recording of my GSC corps and the Paramus Mountettes at the 1969 GSC champs at Dover HS, where the crowd noise is VERY high..sounds like a lot of people...guess what...it wasn't. Dover HS had an 'ordinary' HS field for the day...small wooden stands and no lights. People came and went as their corps performed. My perspective is hardly 'narrow'...I have seen shows of every type from the mid-60's to today. When did you attend your first show? Reading about it or listening to old records is hardly the same as being there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Dangle the hotel-type cost in front of a school and I'd be they'd take it. Housing is a $$$ issue, too. A $70 hotel room, two kids to a room, is $35 each, times about 200 people...$7000 is a mighty temptation for a school to open up their gyms for sleeping bags and a practice field. I cede this point to you. Well argued, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Mike, why do you insist on distorting my words? 'Ordinary' shows just did not draw the numbers you mention. Sorry...you are wrong, IMO. Again, I am only saying that the lineups of those shows were ordinary. If you think the attendance figures of those shows were not ordinary, that is fine. No argument here. Listening to 1950's era recordings is what you go on? I made no reference to 1950s era recordings in this context. How ever does that tell you anything about how many people attended a show? I have a Stetson Richmond recording of my GSC corps and the Paramus Mountettes at the 1969 GSC champs at Dover HS, where the crowd noise is VERY high..sounds like a lot of people...guess what...it wasn't. Dover HS had an 'ordinary' HS field for the day...small wooden stands and no lights. People came and went as their corps performed. Like I said before, it doesn't tell you much. Whether it was 500 people or 5,000 people cannot be ascertained from that particular Stetson Richmond recording (even the master). But you can tell it wasn't 50 people watching a show in a parking lot, like the outlier example of a 1970s show you describe. My perspective is hardly 'narrow'...I have seen shows of every type from the mid-60's to today. When did you attend your first show? Reading about it or listening to old records is hardly the same as being there. The reporters who covered these events for the original Drum Corps World were there, too, just like you were at the shows you describe. They also documented their information and observations while fresh in their minds, and had them published. Is there some reason I should believe their firsthand accounts any less than your own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Reading about it or listening to old records is hardly the same as being there. Exactly. It is impossible to compare a video or an audio tape with the live performance. This is true of Corps performances in 2010..... or 1999.... or 1959.... or 1979. a recording of a performance can not properly be replicated as well as actually being there and seeing and hearing the performance live. For example, If I watch or listen to a tape of the 2008 Phantom Regiment performance at Finals, it is nowhere near the same performance as witnessing it live at Finals. Not even close. And of course this would be even more true if we watched or listened to a tape of a show from a Corps in some earlier decade. ( audio and visual tapes were of much, MUCH.. poorer reproduction qualities of sights and sounds in the earlier decades. The reproduction technology abilities was just gawdawful back then compared with today's enhanced reproduction capabilities. ) Edited February 5, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Like I said before, it doesn't tell you much. Whether it was 500 people or 5,000 people cannot be ascertained from that particular Stetson Richmond recording (even the master). But you can tell it wasn't 50 people watching a show in a parking lot, like the outlier example of a 1970s show you describe. Those were not 'outlier' shows. GSC corps, who had to sponsor a show as being a member of the circuit, did that as cheaply as possible. I'm sure you recall how 'on the edge' many of those corps were, financially and membership-wise. There were a lot of shoestring operations back then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Exactly. It is impossible to compare a video or an audio tape with the live performance. This is true of Corps performances in 2010..... or 1999.... or 1959.... or 1979. a recording of a performance can not properly be replicated as well as actually being there and seeing and hearing the performance live. For example, If I watch or listen to a tape of the 2008 Phantom Regiment performance at Finals, it is nowhere near the same performance as witnessing it live at Finals. Not even close. And of course this would be even more true if we watched or listened to a tape of a show from a Corps in some earlier decade. ( audio and visual tapes were of much, MUCH.. poorer reproduction qualities of sights and sounds in the earlier decades. The reproduction technology abilities was just gawdawful back then compared with today's enhanced reproduction capabilities. ) No disagreement there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Those were not 'outlier' shows. GSC corps, who had to sponsor a show as being a member of the circuit, did that as cheaply as possible. I'm sure you recall how 'on the edge' many of those corps were, financially and membership-wise. There were a lot of shoestring operations back then. So your contention is that parking lots were a routine choice of venue for GSC shows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armyscout Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 true that, you have to be there to really know. Exactly. It is impossible to compare a video or an audio tape with the live performance. This is true of Corps performances in 2010..... or 1999.... or 1959.... or 1979. a recording of a performance can not properly be replicated as well as actually being there and seeing and hearing the performance live. For example, If I watch or listen to a tape of the 2008 Phantom Regiment performance at Finals, it is nowhere near the same performance as witnessing it live at Finals. Not even close. And of course this would be even more true if we watched or listened to a tape of a show from a Corps in some earlier decade. ( audio and visual tapes were of much, MUCH.. poorer reproduction qualities of sights and sounds in the earlier decades. The reproduction technology abilities was just gawdawful back then compared with today's enhanced reproduction capabilities. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 So your contention is that parking lots were a routine choice of venue for GSC shows? Parking lots and other unusual non-stadium spots were used quite often to keep the costs down when a GSC corps hosted a show to fulfill its obligation. No, not all the time, but yes, more than just once a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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