70sxmenbass Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) 1. Money 2. Constant rule changes that will make the activity unrecognizable soon 3. Being able to retain members from year to year. Corps hopping seems to be a hobby nowadays Edited February 6, 2011 by 70sxmenbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) it goes hand in hand. I experienced it first hand in two different companies. why did you lose the customers? because if they didnt bow to your vision, they were wrong in your eyes. More likely it's that your companies offered bad products or services, or failed to innovate in such a way as to grow their customer base. "The customer is always right" is a weak position used by those who aspire nothing more than to be servants. Most people don't know what they like until they actually see it. The best businesses are the ones who can see around corners and figure out what people are going to want BEFORE they know they want it. It's the key to Apple's explosive growth this past decade; knowing that the future of the company wasn't in desktops, but in a digital universe. When iPods were introduced, I remember seeing articles in major media like the WSJ scoffing at Jobs' product, since it seemed an expensive toy. Guess who was right and who was wrong? And "the customer" wasn't asked to weigh in before the product was brought to the marketplace; Apple acted on what they felt was correct, and as with most everything else they've touched lately, they were right. (But the customer sure as hell weighed in on Microsoft's imitation, eh? Microsoft tried following the customer, and failed; Apple invented something so cool that people HAD to have it once they saw it, and succeeded.) If DCI wants to grow the number of participants (which should be the primary goal) and the size of the fan base (secondary goal), they need to come up with a better model for what drum corps can be. Easier to attain (cheaper touring costs and cheaper tickets), more fun to watch, and (wait for it) louder. We live in an amplified world. Time to get over it. Take the mics out of the pit in favor of a front sideline mic'ing system that can pump up the volume from EVERYONE on the field. Apostasy? Sure, but the world has moved on. Every Broadway musical now (and most plays) is being amplified. People are used to hearing music pumped at them loud. My guess is that it's not that hornlines are actually significantly quieter than 30 years ago, but that our standards for what is "loud" have been changed by the world around us. The experience of going to a show should be faster (cut the break time between acts to 6 minutes or less), and bigger (the judging should embrace again the old "free minute" at the end so that corps can let loose with their biggest finishes). And someone is going to have to work with the corps to get them to understand how to program in such a way as to elicit more crowd response than they are now. Most of them aren't that interesting because their staffs are so up their own butts in terms of thinking their good ideas are actually impactful that no one is sitting them down and explaining that the audiences aren't caring about their big ideas. The challenge is one of presentation and perception. Money will follow successful rebranding of the activity. Looking for money WITHOUT making a concerted effort to modernize and improve the product is a waste of time. Edited February 6, 2011 by mobrien 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) The challenge is one of presentation and perception. Money will follow successful rebranding of the activity. Looking for money WITHOUT making a concerted effort to modernize and improve the product is a waste of time. If you believe people will go see something unique and interesting then electrifying drum corps so that it looks like everything else (marching bands, rock concerts, ad mp3 player on volume 11) will not create the perception that it's unique. And we all know how how the presentation of marching band is interesting only to those MM's and their parents/friends. It's halftime to most observers. The concerted effort should be to re-explain and promote what's unique about drum corps, not make it look like the other, innumerable "plugged in" activities that vie for the paying customer's attention. Edited February 6, 2011 by garfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvs me sum mello! Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 1: Dinos thinking drum corps is doomed and not putting money towards the activity, thus making it more difficult for the current generation to have drum corps. That is all. You are cancer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) If you believe people will go see something unique and interesting then electrifying drum corps so that it looks like everything else (marching bands, rock concerts, ad mp3 player on volume 11) will not create the perception that it's unique. And we all know how how the presentation of marching band is interesting only to those MM's and their parents/friends. It's halftime to most observers. The concerted effort should be to re-explain and promote what's unique about drum corps, not make it look like the other, innumerable "plugged in" activities that vie for the paying customer's attention. Ok. Then you've decided that the unique appeal of drum corps is in its quaintness. You're going to go to the tiny segment of the market that attends chamber concerts and performances of Gogol in Russian. Last one out of the stadium, please put out the lights. "Different" in any product line can simply mean "different from itself". We've had 25 or 30 years of this style of drum corps (the Cadets ushered in the modern era in 82/83, and I'd say that things haven't really changed that much since then). It worked for the 80s, 90s, and most of the 2000s, but now it's need of an update in philosophy or presentation. The marker between drum corps and marching band should always be one of instrumentation (no woodwinds), but more importantly, level of performance. As long as drum corps stresses professionalism in performance, they'll have a leg up on all but the best bands. Edited February 6, 2011 by mobrien 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdcoast Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 1: Dinos thinking drum corps is doomed and not putting money towards the activity, thus making it more difficult for the current generation to have drum corps. That is all. You are cancer. Deep, very deep! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Ok. Then you've decided that the unique appeal of drum corps is in its quaintness. You're going to go to the tiny segment of the market that attends chamber concerts and performances of Gogol in Russian. Last one out of the stadium, please put out the lights. "Different" in any product line can simply mean "different from itself". We've had 25 or 30 years of this style of drum corps (the Cadets ushered in the modern era in 82/83, and I'd say that things haven't really changed that much since then). It worked for the 80s, 90s, and most of the 2000s, but now it's need of an update in philosophy or presentation. The marker between drum corps and marching band should always be one of instrumentation (no woodwinds), but more importantly, level of performance. As long as drum corps stresses professionalism in performance, they'll have a leg up on all but the best bands. Surprisingly, despite your invalid assertion of what I believe DC's unique appeal is, I agree with nearly every word of your last sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 1: Dinos thinking drum corps is doomed and not putting money towards the activity, thus making it more difficult for the current generation to have drum corps. That is all. You are cancer. I visualize you stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum. You'd probably be surprised to hear how much money and time I currently put into the activity despite my disagreeing with its current direction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 1: Dinos thinking drum corps is doomed and not putting money towards the activity, thus making it more difficult for the current generation to have drum corps. That is all. You are cancer. They don't owe us younger folks anything. Many have poured more time and money into drum corps than any of us ever will, and if they feel it has evolved into something they no longer wish to support that's their right. No need to cry about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 More likely it's that your companies offered bad products or services, or failed to innovate in such a way as to grow their customer base. "The customer is always right" is a weak position used by those who aspire nothing more than to be servants. Most people don't know what they like until they actually see it. The best businesses are the ones who can see around corners and figure out what people are going to want BEFORE they know they want it. It's the key to Apple's explosive growth this past decade; knowing that the future of the company wasn't in desktops, but in a digital universe. When iPods were introduced, I remember seeing articles in major media like the WSJ scoffing at Jobs' product, since it seemed an expensive toy. Guess who was right and who was wrong? And "the customer" wasn't asked to weigh in before the product was brought to the marketplace; Apple acted on what they felt was correct, and as with most everything else they've touched lately, they were right. (But the customer sure as hell weighed in on Microsoft's imitation, eh? Microsoft tried following the customer, and failed; Apple invented something so cool that people HAD to have it once they saw it, and succeeded.) If DCI wants to grow the number of participants (which should be the primary goal) and the size of the fan base (secondary goal), they need to come up with a better model for what drum corps can be. Easier to attain (cheaper touring costs and cheaper tickets), more fun to watch, and (wait for it) louder. We live in an amplified world. Time to get over it. Take the mics out of the pit in favor of a front sideline mic'ing system that can pump up the volume from EVERYONE on the field. Apostasy? Sure, but the world has moved on. Every Broadway musical now (and most plays) is being amplified. People are used to hearing music pumped at them loud. My guess is that it's not that hornlines are actually significantly quieter than 30 years ago, but that our standards for what is "loud" have been changed by the world around us. The experience of going to a show should be faster (cut the break time between acts to 6 minutes or less), and bigger (the judging should embrace again the old "free minute" at the end so that corps can let loose with their biggest finishes). And someone is going to have to work with the corps to get them to understand how to program in such a way as to elicit more crowd response than they are now. Most of them aren't that interesting because their staffs are so up their own butts in terms of thinking their good ideas are actually impactful that no one is sitting them down and explaining that the audiences aren't caring about their big ideas. The challenge is one of presentation and perception. Money will follow successful rebranding of the activity. Looking for money WITHOUT making a concerted effort to modernize and improve the product is a waste of time. Exactly. While we're at it, we should get rid of the brass and the percussion. Face it - we live in a synthesized world. Get over it. Oh, and this narrow-minded obsession with live performance....c'mon, the world has moved on. And competition? Who pays to see that? We need to think outside the box if we're going to make....um....(looks at teleprompter)....drum corps....popular with new audiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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