Jeff Ream Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Drum corps instrumentation has been moving toward the band world long before the 90's. Long before DCI, actually. Adding valves to horns...adding voices such as the contra..adding timpani...mallets...auxiliary percussion...creating the pit...those all happened prior to the 90's. but they were all percussion and brass, with no wires and mics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Yes, you're right. I absolutely think that drum corps is defined by its instrumentation. All of the rest of the other 99% of the end product can be (and likely is) found in virtually every kind of group related recreational or goal driven activity. Things like fellowship, teamwork, learning of life-skills, going through ups and downs, "shared hardship, brotherhood, and too many other great qualities to list here," are often experienced in the chess club, the debate team, the church choir, working at McDonald's, the bowling team, the marching band, the jazz band, the orchestra, the swing choir, on, and on, and on, and on. In the case of drum corps, it's the instrumentation that defines what kind of experience we're talking about. Furthermore, as we all know, sometimes the drum corps experience (the other 99% that you speak of) can unfortunately be one that is incredibly unhealthy and dysfunctional for a variety of reasons, depending on the organization and the personnel involved. The same goes for any other group activity. Sorry, drum corps is more than just "the experiences." You are ignoring the one thing that makes it (or made it) unique, the instrumentation. The experience makes it great (or not so great), the instrumentation makes it a drum corps. I think you are devaluing the significance of drum corps. I think instrumentation is important but I'm convinced that the experience of being in drum corps was the same in 1970 as it is now with the inclusion of electronics, pits, synths, different horns, show design, etc. In regards to the second bolded statement. Have you done any other activities other than drum corps?! I have, and the drum corps experience is SO INCREDIBLY UNIQUE compared to other activities; the activities that you described. Maybe if the Boy Scouts did a 3 month excursion in the woods where the slept and ate with each other 24 hours a day, maybe then the drum corps experience can be rivaled. I'm convinced you've probably never done drum corps so your comparisons mean absolutely nothing because you don't understand. If you honestly think that being in the chess club gives you the same experience as drum corps... lol! Honestly, drum corps is an activity where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It's not "just" the instrumentation that makes it drum corps, it's the style, it's the music, it's the movement, it's the uniforms, it's the tradition, it's the innovation, it's its structure, the touring, the quality, level of achievement, the people and staff, the competitions, the fans... there is much that goes into drum corps the activity we know of today. If there was group that sat down in a concert hall and played only brass and percussion and they only played barouque music that wouldn't be a drum corps. Instrumentation is important but NOT the crux of what drum corps is. Edited February 5, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 In regards to the second bolded statement. Have you done any other activities other than drum corps?! I have, and the drum corps experience is SO INCREDIBLY UNIQUE compared to other activities; the activities that you described. Maybe if the Boy Scouts did a 3 month excursion in the woods where the slept and ate with each other 24 hours a day, maybe then the drum corps experience can be rivaled. I'm convinced you've probably never done drum corps so your comparisons mean absolutely nothing because you don't understand. If you honestly think that being in the chess club gives you the same experience as drum corps... lol! As a member you can tell the difference in experience. But an audience member cannot tell that difference from the stands. All they can see is improved quality and that instrumentation thing. Let's not forget the people paying the bills.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 but they were all percussion and brass, with no wires and mics. Just out of curiosity what would call these, chopped liver?: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/el-drumkit/ http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.php?ParentId=60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 As a member you can tell the difference in experience. But an audience member cannot tell that difference from the stands. All they can see is improved quality and that instrumentation thing. Let's not forget the people paying the bills.... well, I haven't been a member for a few years now, but even with all changes I know that drum corps experience has changed very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Yes, you're right. I absolutely think that drum corps is defined by its instrumentation. All of the rest of the other 99% of the end product can be (and likely is) found in virtually every kind of group related recreational or goal driven activity. Things like fellowship, teamwork, learning of life-skills, going through ups and downs, "shared hardship, brotherhood, and too many other great qualities to list here," are often experienced in the chess club, the debate team, the church choir, working at McDonald's, the bowling team, the marching band, the jazz band, the orchestra, the swing choir, on, and on, and on, and on. In the case of drum corps, it's the instrumentation that defines what kind of experience we're talking about. Furthermore, as we all know, sometimes the drum corps experience (the other 99% that you speak of) can unfortunately be one that is incredibly unhealthy and dysfunctional for a variety of reasons, depending on the organization and the personnel involved. The same goes for any other group activity. Sorry, drum corps is more than just "the experiences." You are ignoring the one thing that makes it (or made it) unique, the instrumentation. The experience makes it great (or not so great), the instrumentation makes it a drum corps. No no no. Please read what I wrote. I specifically excluded all those things in this point: You're ignoring the other 99% of the end-product that (even before A&E and Bb) they shared in common. Competitive marching bands *are* (for all intents and purposes) producing drum corps shows. The differences between the two activities (excepting excellence) lie entirely outside the end-product. This is not because drum corps is attempting to be like marching band -- it's because marching band has become fall drum corps. The activity -- what the members do for 10 minutes -- is substantially IDENTICAL to what marching bands do. You're focusing on a TINY TINY element and suddenly saying THIS is what defines drumcorps. You couldn't be more wrong. . People march and play and spin on a football field. (Competitive) marching band and drum corps are the same thing. The BIG differences lie outside the on-field product (and therefore outside considerations like instrumentation). Drum corps is in the summer. Drum corps tour. Etc.. Attempting to blow up instrumentation into the DEFINITIVE difference is just plain ridiculous. I have preferences that may not lie so very far from yours. But I'm not going pronounce that G v Bb or A&E v acoustic DEFINE the activity. What CMM's actually DO every season defines the activity. Not me. Not you. Obviously, not all "legacy fans" have severed ties with the activity, and I'm not sure how you or anyone would be in a position to determine what the unique part of someone else's drum corps experience revolved around.I've not read where members performing on electronic instruments have been pigeon-holed or denigrated. I think your interpretation is overstated. REALLY? There are four or five threads now on the front page where DCP'rs consistently call electronics "easy", "cheating" , "no longer drum corps" blah blah blah on and on. Now put yourself in the position of a CMM reading that. Those kids must be idiots who just stand their and press the easy button. What they do isn't music and has little to do with actual musicianship. No -- no one is denigrating anyone. Right. That's an accusatory statement that has no foundation of fact. If someone chooses to not be involved in the activity (for whatever reason), I find it hard to believe that that choice has anything to do with "turning one's back on anyone." Yes it is accusatory. And it's founded clearly in facts right here in black and white. Quite frankly I'd like all these blowhards on DCP to go watch a full day of practice and then tell those kids to their face that what they do isn't drum corps, that they cheat, aren't musicians, and just take the easy way out. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Just out of curiosity what would call these, chopped liver?: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/el-drumkit/ http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.php?ParentId=60 I would call those electric drums...those weren't added back in the 70's like the other instruments they are talking about... and while they sound similar to acoustic drums, they don't sound the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 well, I haven't been a member for a few years now, but even with all changes I know that drum corps experience has changed very little. for the member.... it's changed loads for the legacy fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I think you are devaluing the significance of drum corps. I think instrumentation is important but I'm convinced that the experience of being in drum corps was the same in 1970 as it is now with the inclusion of electronics, pits, synths, different horns, show design, etc. In regards to the second bolded statement. Have you done any other activities other than drum corps?! I have, and the drum corps experience is SO INCREDIBLY UNIQUE compared to other activities; the activities that you described. Maybe if the Boy Scouts did a 3 month excursion in the woods where the slept and ate with each other 24 hours a day, maybe then the drum corps experience can be rivaled. I'm convinced you've probably never done drum corps so your comparisons mean absolutely nothing because you don't understand. If you honestly think that being in the chess club gives you the same experience as drum corps... lol! Honestly, drum corps is an activity where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It's not "just" the instrumentation that makes it drum corps, it's the style, it's the music, it's the movement, it's the uniforms, it's the tradition, it's the innovation, it's its structure, the touring, the quality, level of achievement, the people and staff, the competitions, the fans... there is much that goes into drum corps the activity we know of today. If there was group that sat down in a concert hall and played only brass and percussion and they only played barouque music that wouldn't be a drum corps. Instrumentation is important but NOT the crux of what drum corps is. I can assure you that I do not devalue the experience of drum corps. I've been doing it for almost 30 years, from performer, to instructor, to volunteer, to corps director, to parent, and all points in-between, in DCI, DCA, and the USMC. I also agree that my corps experience does not compare to anything else I've done, but that's just me. I know many people that have marched that have not become as addicted to it as I have over the years. They went back to their swing choir, theater experiences, sports teams, or even their marching band, etc., because... again... there was more of a value exchange (what they got out of it) for them in those activities than there was for them to keep marching drum corps. My point is that by evidence of the amount of time we spend here on DCP, we "get it" when it come to the value of drum corps, but that is not to say that others don't feel equally as passionate about their activities. Someone involved in competitive dance, figure skating, aquatics, soccer, etc., can and do say the same kinds of things about their experiences that we say about ours. I also know a ton of marching band students that marched drum corps for a year or two, and decided that that was enough. Their marching band experience satisfied their itch to march, so they went back to it just as happy as could be. Perhaps they had a bad experience in corps? I don't know, but I do know that all of these things that we're using to justify the "incredibly unique" experiences that we're using to define drum corps, are not exclusive to drum corps. Sorry, but that's just a fact. The thing that was exclusive to drum corps was instrumentation. That's why today we debate and debate to no end about what is or is not a drum corps, with no clear definition that can not be summed up into an exercise in "splitting hairs" between and marching band and a drum corps. Bottom line, it's the instrumentation... or was. Now we're pretty much just drum & bugle corps by name... which is okay. The experiences are merely subjective viewpoints on how one feels about being with their corps. Anyway, I also agree with your first statement, the experience is the same from the 70's as it is today. As it relates to your last statement, I never said that instrumentation was the crux of the drum corps experience. I said that instrumentation defines the kind of experience (in this case, drum corps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) for the member.... it's changed loads for the legacy fan. Yea, I mean, for continued line of members it hasn't changed in experience. For those that have watched drum corps for 40+ years... most definitely the "shows" have changed. Edited February 5, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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