garfield Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I have to disagree with some of this. (Disclaimer - I'm a child of the 80's.) Even back then, the quad / quints / basses were available for bands to buy - the Yamaha Field Corps snare that I played was the same one that Madison was using. Same brushed silver finish too - man, those are nice. Now DCI corps may have *done* more with them, and I submit that's the case even today, but the equipment has never been different or restricted to solely DCI like bugles were. Anyways, overall point being that as far as equipment goes, as drummers we've never really had to consider differences between corps and band. Mike Well, I guess the difference is how you define "Back In The Day". I'm a child of the '70s, and came from a competitive band program. Granted we weren't the be all, end all of marching band but, as percussion section leader and avid drum corps fan, I was constantly struggling to keep up with what corps were using. Our program had typical public financing and support, and every time we got new equipment we were two years behind what corps were using. And as I said, bands were catching up to corps even by the time graduated in '77. Possibly by the time you strapped on a drum there was much less difference in the equipment being used. I don't think you disagree as much as you say; in fact I could make the case that because you had corps equipment to use you actually enforce my observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't think so. I think society itself determines what's what, as it relates to issues of language and terminology. As Richard Ledderer wrote, "...language is invented, not discovered, by boys and girls and men and women, not computers. As such, language reflects the creative and fearful asymmetry of the human race..." DCI is a governing body, not a defining body. It can call its participants whatever it wants, but that doesn't make it necessarily accurate or true. Whatever happened to "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...?” All my life I was told that poor little Pluto was a planet in our solar system, and then someone decided to change that, to the dismay of many, but what can you do? Last year I saw a small but proud parade group comprised of 9 G-bugles (a few of them were valve-rotors), two snares (with slings), and one bass drummer. The average age couldn't have been more than 12 years old. They identified themselves as a drum & bugle corps, and apparently the Scout Troop that they were associated with had been calling it that for more than 70 years. DCI can't touch that, and the group's instrumentation alone left no room for doubt. What I really find interesting is that many people want to defend the right to call whatever group of instrumentation they want, a "drum & bugle corps," and assert that others should accept it. I say why not simply call them bands, or even more specifically, marching bands? If it really doesn't matter, then why not simply choose the least controversial name... marching band? That way we can all happily move on with our lives. Anyway, when I find the encyclopedia that I have that defines what a drum & bugle corps is, I'll share the citation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I wonder, though, if the change in 2000 didn't contribute to the seemingly sudden increase in age / college experience of the average marcher, as it was now a seamless transition between college band and DCI? I don't think so. For one thing, if the key of the horn was an issue, it was just as much an issue for HS aged people as college folks. But more importantly, the surge was already underway before the rule change. And as recruiting of the 18-21 set improved, it showed in the ranks of corps with G bugles as well as corps with Bb/F brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't think so. I think society itself determines what's what, as it relates to issues of language and terminology. As Richard Ledderer wrote, "...language is invented, not discovered, by boys and girls and men and women, not computers. As such, language reflects the creative and fearful asymmetry of the human race..." DCI is a governing body, not a defining body. It can call its participants whatever it wants, but that doesn't make it necessarily accurate or true. Whatever happened to "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...?” All my life I was told that poor little Pluto was a planet in our solar system, and then someone decided to change that, to the dismay of many, but what can you do? Last year I saw a small but proud parade group comprised of 9 G-bugles (a few of them were valve-rotors), two snares (with slings), and one bass drummer. The average age couldn't have been more than 12 years old. They identified themselves as a drum & bugle corps, and apparently the Scout Troop that they were associated with had been calling it that for more than 70 years. DCI can't touch that, and the group's instrumentation alone left no room for doubt. What I really find interesting is that many people want to defend the right to call whatever group of instrumentation they want, a "drum & bugle corps," and assert that others should accept it. I say why not simply call them bands, or even more specifically, marching bands? If it really doesn't matter, then why not simply choose the least controversial name... marching band? That way we can all happily move on with our lives. Anyway, when I find the encyclopedia that I have that defines what a drum & bugle corps is, I'll share the citation. In the middle of your post you state, "Last year I saw a small but proud parade group comprised of 9 G-bugles (a few of them were valve-rotors), two snares (with slings), and one bass drummer. The average age couldn't have been more than 12 years old. They identified themselves as a drum & bugle corps,..." Then you end the same post with the statement, "What I really find interesting is that many people want to defend the right to call whatever group of instrumentation they want, a drum & bugle corps, and assert that others should accept it." So, that actually means you are against that proud little unit calling itself a drum & bugle corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 if I like it, it's drum corps...if I don't like it, it's marching band. I don't know if this was meant to be funny/kinda facetious, but it made me crack up in a "it's funny because it's true" kind of way. I think for the average fan/DCP poster this is their 'definition' of drum corps. Bravo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 To me...and maybe just me, I find it funny that so many people especially on DCP feel that Drum Corps is lost FUNDAMENTALLY due to sound changes or differences from the past. I've always felt Drum Corps was different for many many other reasons and sound was way to the bottom of that list.likem i said maybe me.. I totally agree with this, and I find it rather disappointing that so many that hold this opinion ("Drum Corps is lost FUNDAMENTALLY due to sound changes or differences from the past") are alumni of corps. I would expect the these sentiments from laymen who can never fully understand/appreciate what it takes to march a season or more of a corps, or be naive as to the feeling of how it feels to represent decades of history & share a fraternal bond with strangers: NOT from alumni. Drum corps is not about specific instrumentation, design styles, bells & whistles used for design effect, uniform styles, etc. It's about what marching in a corps teaches us: and building friendships & relationships with our brothers & sisters. It's about marching next to some guy who lives 2000 miles from you that never existed to your knowledge before January or February, but after August they will be closer to you than people you've known for decades. These sentiments are shared by ht "kids" on the field currently marching, and their instrument make/model (and whether or not their instrument is amplified through speakers) has NOTHING to do with it. FWIW, that's a feeling that took me a lot of years to realize. I lacked respect for those who marched in the 70's or before, as I thought those shows were "boring" and/or "lame" compared to what was going on in the 90's. When I aged-out and the any key brass rule was passed shortly after, I thought I had marched in the last 'real' era of drum corps. I was horrified to hear singing and talking through a microphone, and at the time I was positive drum corps was dead. But after giving it much thought, and having the pleasure of seeing my students marching drum corps and experience a lot of the same things I did (with a different corps, as mine folded quite awhile ago). Seeing them mature as human beings and performers, and hearing their tour stories was a simple exercise of, "change names/dates and you're describing my experiences almost exactly." I realized what drum corps REALLY meant, and it has nothing to do with valves on a contra or wires in the pit area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Least controversial? I think the the term marching band is the MOST controversial, at least to people in the drum corps world. the least controversial is "Outdoor Performance Ensemble".... or "Marching Music Ensemble"... something so incredibly generic that there are not positive or negative connotations. They should just change the name of the activity to a symbol or something, and skip labeling altogether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 In the middle of your post you state, "Last year I saw a small but proud parade group comprised of 9 G-bugles (a few of them were valve-rotors), two snares (with slings), and one bass drummer. The average age couldn't have been more than 12 years old. They identified themselves as a drum & bugle corps,..." Then you end the same post with the statement, "What I really find interesting is that many people want to defend the right to call whatever group of instrumentation they want, a drum & bugle corps, and assert that others should accept it." So, that actually means you are against that proud little unit calling itself a drum & bugle corps. You should read that again..and take off the glasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 They should just change the name of the activity to a symbol or something, and skip labeling altogether it worked for Prince...for a while... the activity formerly known as drum corps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Drum corps is not about specific instrumentation, design styles, bells & whistles used for design effect, uniform styles, etc. It's about what marching in a corps teaches us: and building friendships & relationships with our brothers & sisters. It's about marching next to some guy who lives 2000 miles from you that never existed to your knowledge before January or February, but after August they will be closer to you than people you've known for decades. These sentiments are shared by ht "kids" on the field currently marching, and their instrument make/model (and whether or not their instrument is amplified through speakers) has NOTHING to do with it. A person in a Marine Fighting Unit has the same exact experiences as the one you just described: (It's about what marching and being in a corps teaches us: and building friendships & relationships with our brothers & sisters. It's about marching and being next to some guy who lives 2000 miles from you that never existed to your knowledge before January or February boot camp, but after August they will be closer to you than people you've known for decades. These sentiments are shared by those on the field, and their instrument make/model has NOTHING to do with it.) So, since the experiential aspects are exactly the same between a Marine Fighting Unit and a Drum Corps, and it does not matter the instrument differences, then a Marine Fighting Unit and a Drum Corps are one in the same. Or, does the instruments used actually make them different activities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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