BRASSO Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) This is from another thread but think this is VERY TRUE of SCV this year. I'm not naive enough to believe that to a person SCV is drawing the same level of brass talent across the board in all sections as BD/Cadets/Cavies/Crown are, but I also know for a fact that there is no "lack of talent" issue in play here. I believe that the horn line is embracing a technical (perhaps even philosophical) approach to their playing that is driven by their brass staff (call it what you will)... and I have no problem with it. Make no mistake, I like getting my face peeled as much as anyone, but I believe the SCV brass staff is first trying to reach for a level of performance quality beyond the "death volume" that we're all starving for. This brass show is so complex in its rhythmic, harmonic, and dynamic content and demand, (as well as articulation, tempo, visual demand on the performer, etc.) that it's simply going to take time to achieve the level of quality that would be demanded of a "highest tier" horn line in today's DCI World Class. What's great about this approach is that it strengthens the most challenging aspects of brass performance, knowing that you can unleash the volume at almost any point you wish, including when you're pushing for that little "extra" within the last couple of weeks of the season. You can't clean that brass book by neglecting the time and focus on the fundamentals necessary to tame the interior aspects of an impossibly difficult show like "The Devil's Staircase." The rhythms, harmonies, articulation, tempos, etc., are the "cake" of the brass book, the "death volume" is the icing to go on that cake, and that cake is still in the oven folks. I know the SCV horn line has every bit of the ability to bring the volume, just as much as any other corps out there, but I'm not convinced that any corps' horn line could achieve what SCV is being challenged to achieve by using more traditional (or status quo) approaches to brass performance that we're more familiar with or are inclined to embrace in this activity. For those struggling with what they're offering right now, be patient, and rather than focusing on what you don't hear, take some time to listen to and appreciate what's happening inside those eclectic phrases (musically and visually). I have confidence that when they're ready to unleash the volume, it will have significant positive impact on everything else (i.e. GE Music scores, Ensemble Music scores, etc.). IMO, this is the Vanguard stepping outside the norm again, exploring beyond the expected, going where others will eventually follow. They're simply being the Santa Clara Vanguard. .... Thanks nemesiscorps for writing this, trust me, SCV can play LOUD. LOUD is not the objective of this show!!!! GO SCV While all this might be true, lets not forget the SCV were 8th in Brass caption out of 8 Corps in Texas, and 2 nights ago their brass line was topped by the Blue Stars.... again. It is their fine percussion line that is keeping them in the middle of the pack this year at present. SCV may find whats missing in time, just like you said, but they have LOTS of work to do and reading this above I'm not so sure you understand the very real reality of where their brass line is right now within the ranks of DCI Corps. Just sayin' Edited July 15, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 While all this might be true, lets not forget the SCV were 8th in Brass caption out of 8 Corps in Texas, and 2 nights ago their brass line was topped by the Blue Stars.... again. It is their fine percussion line that is keeping them in the middle of the pack this year at present. SCV may find whats missing in time, just like you said, but they have LOTS of work to do and reading this above I'm not so sure you understand the very real reality of where their brass line is right now within the ranks of DCI Corps. Just sayin' Hmm... It's possible that I do need a reality check, but until that happens, I'll choose my own reality, which I don't think is too far fetched. I believe that the reality of where their brass line is within the ranks of DCI corps is a reflection of the demand placed upon the performers to succeed/compete against other horn lines with frankly... less demand. I would expect those other brass lines to be more successful at this point with their products, versus what SCV is trying to achieve. Example: Scouts are closing with "Empire State of Mind." Regiment is closing with "Elsa's." Vanguard is closing with "The Devil's Staircase!" Need I say more? Having said that, I also think that the reality is that in early-mid July, their horn line has fantastic potential and is just tenths away from the lines of the corps you mention (and others), horn lines that have far less demand placed upon them. And the Vanguard is steadily closing those gaps. Being as biased as I am for SCV, I believe that their progress gained thus far from the opening weekend in Texas up until now far surpasses any other corps that they competed against that weekend. They're holding their own against the top horn lines in the activity. They're clearly not ahead of them, but they're also not five points back, as I interpret your comments to imply. They're not out of anyone's league. Do I think that SCV will sweep all captions in August? No. Do I think SCV will win top brass? No. Do I think they can successfully compete with the top horn lines? Absolutely, because they're already doing it. We both agree, the Vanguard horn line has LOTS of work to do, and thankfully they're doing it every day, and they'll continue to do so until this is all over. Would we expect less from them? Everyone is going to get better. The question is, if/when Santa Clara masters their brass and visual books, will those corps you mentioned (and others) have the product to compete against "The Devil's Staircase" and stay on top of them? Final thought. You reference the dominance of the percussion section as being what's keeping them in the middle of the pack at present. I agree... but I'm not clear on your point. The SCV guard is also very strong this year, and the program design is arguably one of the best of 2011. Like everyone else, while they're cleaning this show, they'll also continue to develop it, so I don't see them losing ground there at all. Every corps has strengths and weaknesses. It's not too difficult to identify SCV's and what they need to do about them. With some of their competition already performing at pretty high levels, they'll need to rely on program development (potentially significant changes) to keep them on top when Vanguard gets clean. That's why this is turning out to be such a great season. Finally, for once, everything seems to be up for grabs, and in mid-July no one's running away with the season. That's the reality that I see and understand. GO VANGUARD! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolutely Sweet Marie Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Vanguard's brass sound is similar philosophy to 2001-2009 Cavaliers, but louder....by the end of the summer they'll sound more musical than the Cavaliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) Vanguard's brass sound is similar philosophy to 2001-2009 Cavaliers, but louder....by the end of the summer they'll sound more musical than the Cavaliers. To the judges ? SCV brass line will not" sound more musical than the Cavaliers by the end of the Summer " to the judges, imo. But if SCV brass line finishes ahead of Cavs Brass line in the brass caption in 4 weeks, I'll certainly come back here, and state how right you are. But right now, I'm not sure they'll be that kind of change over the short 4 weeks time that remains. But who really knows. We'll just have to see what happens. Edited July 15, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 what the brass judges look for has always been interesting to me. remember, it's judged from the field, so they hear things very differently than we do from the stands. some of the winners over the years have been baffling for me, but that's just the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 what the brass judges look for has always been interesting to me. remember, it's judged from the field, so they hear things very differently than we do from the stands. some of the winners over the years have been baffling for me, but that's just the way it is. Like how BD '09 placed ahead of Santa Clara's hornline (albeit by .2)? That one was a little odd to me, a horn line who played with extreme control and dynamics, and beauty, against one who barely played, and had some big issues from the stands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Also, this thread needs much more involvement. The Phantom thread has 66 pages, the Madison page is over 130, and the SCV one has 13? That needs to change folks, let's get the HYPE GOING!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) That drum cam from last week was sick! Those guys look like they're lots of fun under all that seriousness on the field. Edited July 15, 2011 by DrumManTx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POSITIVenrgy Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hmm... It's possible that I do need a reality check, but until that happens, I'll choose my own reality, which I don't think is too far fetched. I believe that the reality of where their brass line is within the ranks of DCI corps is a reflection of the demand placed upon the performers to succeed/compete against other horn lines with frankly... less demand. I would expect those other brass lines to be more successful at this point with their products, versus what SCV is trying to achieve. Example: Scouts are closing with "Empire State of Mind." Regiment is closing with "Elsa's." Vanguard is closing with "The Devil's Staircase!" Need I say more? Having said that, I also think that the reality is that in early-mid July, their horn line has fantastic potential and is just tenths away from the lines of the corps you mention (and others), horn lines that have far less demand placed upon them. And the Vanguard is steadily closing those gaps. Being as biased as I am for SCV, I believe that their progress gained thus far from the opening weekend in Texas up until now far surpasses any other corps that they competed against that weekend. They're holding their own against the top horn lines in the activity. They're clearly not ahead of them, but they're also not five points back, as I interpret your comments to imply. They're not out of anyone's league. Do I think that SCV will sweep all captions in August? No. Do I think SCV will win top brass? No. Do I think they can successfully compete with the top horn lines? Absolutely, because they're already doing it. We both agree, the Vanguard horn line has LOTS of work to do, and thankfully they're doing it every day, and they'll continue to do so until this is all over. Would we expect less from them? Everyone is going to get better. The question is, if/when Santa Clara masters their brass and visual books, will those corps you mentioned (and others) have the product to compete against "The Devil's Staircase" and stay on top of them? Final thought. You reference the dominance of the percussion section as being what's keeping them in the middle of the pack at present. I agree... but I'm not clear on your point. The SCV guard is also very strong this year, and the program design is arguably one of the best of 2011. Like everyone else, while they're cleaning this show, they'll also continue to develop it, so I don't see them losing ground there at all. Every corps has strengths and weaknesses. It's not too difficult to identify SCV's and what they need to do about them. With some of their competition already performing at pretty high levels, they'll need to rely on program development (potentially significant changes) to keep them on top when Vanguard gets clean. That's why this is turning out to be such a great season. Finally, for once, everything seems to be up for grabs, and in mid-July no one's running away with the season. That's the reality that I see and understand. GO VANGUARD! Alas, I can only "green plus" you one time. If I coulda done it 10 x's, I woulda! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodakphan Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 My son, now in SCV, basically confirms what nemesiscorps has said about the brass philosophy. While my son is a percussionist, he knows the brass will be bringing it bigger -- and at the same time, with great musicality -- in the end. Anyway, can't wait to see SCV and all the corps tomorrow in Minneapolis. Bringing 9 relatives with me. Hope they don't wilt in the heat! Go, SCV! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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