Kamarag Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The real mystery is CorpsVets and Alliance. They could come in in the 7-10 spots, or one or both could come in and shock some corps in the 4-6 range. Heck, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think one of them (probably Alliance) might start batting around Cabs, Hurcs, and Empire before too long, say, in the next year or two. Either way, my money is on one of the Atlanta corps busting up the Northeast logjam this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Exactly. There are a lot of what if's. Frankly I wasn't excited by the Renegades performances at pre-lims and finals last year. If they are in the same shape this year they could be bumped off. But we won't know until we see them....Which will come down to finals weekend, so who knows on that one. At least with MBI they will be a Lewisburg. I haven't written off Bush or Tampa Bay at all. I think some people want to write Cabs off as 6th or lower and I don't see that happening either. But I most certainly can't say who will make a move when without a crystal ball....that's sheer lunacy to attempt to say something like that with accuracy. Ok so now you are being somewhat specific. I don't think Cabs is any danger of moving down out of the 5th spot. There has been too much spread in the past from the 6th place corps on down to see a major move this season. I don't think its any mystery that Empire and Hurricanes will be jockeying for a flip flop in positions. That sort of leaves MBI as the wildcard. Where have we heard that before????? Like the last 4 years? Sad thing is they are behind now in SCORES and will roll into Rochester behind in SCORES trying to play catch up. Its not really where you want to be rolling into Championships. I know the judging is suppose to sort all of that out at championships but when your behind your behind. Period. In my view not much is going to change from last years final positions. Perhaps a spot here or there but they are basically going to be in about the same positions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 How do we know that MBI will roll into Rochester behind? Lewisberg isn't for a week and a half.....and they actually get scored against Bucs and Hurcs, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishbugle Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Looking at the history of finals placements over the last few years, plus what Corps are having some success in 2011- I think we can expect the status quo for the Top 5 this year in Rochester. As we have read on this forum before (prepare for Jeff Ream to jump out of his chair)- A judging panel takes into account a corps success or failures throughout the year rather than judging whats in front of them that night. Sometimes that is to the advantage of a corps having a bad night, but to most corps- its not. For example- The Bucs have an image in DCA over the last 6 years of being THE corps to beat. Undefeated for 6 straight years and consistently demonstrating a superior quality performance, design, and level of preparation. It will be difficult for any panel to judge a Bucs performance and feel another corps that evening performed better- unless that other corps was SIGNIFICANTLY better. The image of Bucs being number 1 will sometimes carry the corps farther than their actual performance that evening, especially at the start and end of the season. I think there is a chance to see movement between Hurcs, Empire, and Cabs (up or down a placement between them) but thats really about it. Edited July 20, 2011 by irishbugle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Let's say Renegades fall out of finals, and Kilties make it in....to neither corps that would be status quo. Kilties haven't made it in what? 13 years? Renegades have never not made it since coming to their first DCA....same could be said about Bush....... So maybe to someone it seems like same old same old....but if you are in any of those positions, it's a big deal..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishbugle Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Let's say Renegades fall out of finals, and Kilties make it in....to neither corps that would be status quo. Good Catch. When I made that statement I was referring to the Top 5. I have edited my previous post to that affect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldephard Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 As a somewhat longtime (former) marching band judge, I can tell you that if a judge is doing his or her job, this will not come into their decision making process. Is the system perfect? No, but I know many of the DCA judges and many more from other areas of the activity, and I know almost all of them to try their best to give a fair and honest read of the show that is on the field that night. As for the Buccaneers getting the nod due to their long winning streak, I can say that an equal number of judges would probably have to fight the urge to hold them to a higher standard than the other corps. What might be a "tick" for them may be given a pass for some of the lower scoring corps. It can work both ways, but a good judge tries his or her very best to just judge what they see & hear. For those that are critical, I say give it a try and see just how difficult a job it can be, especially at a high stkes show like Prelims of Finals. Looking at the history of finals placements over the last few years, plus what Corps are having some success in 2011- I think we can expect the status quo for the Top 5 this year in Rochester. As we have read on this forum before (prepare for Jeff Ream to jump out of his chair)- A judging panel takes into account a corps success or failures throughout the year rather than judging whats in front of them that night. Sometimes that is to the advantage of a corps having a bad night, but to most corps- its not. For example- The Bucs have an image in DCA over the last 6 years of being THE corps to beat. Undefeated for 6 straight years and consistently demonstrating a superior quality performance, design, and level of preparation. It will be difficult for any panel to judge a Bucs performance and feel another corps that evening performed better- unless that other corps was SIGNIFICANTLY better. The image of Bucs being number 1 will sometimes carry the corps farther than their actual performance that evening, especially at the start and end of the season. I think there is a chance to see movement between Hurcs, Empire, and Cabs (up or down a placement between them) but thats really about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 How do we know that MBI will roll into Rochester behind? Lewisberg isn't for a week and a half.....and they actually get scored against Bucs and Hurcs, etc. Its called predictability in judging. Right now Bucs have a 84.15 and by Championships they are likely to roll out with a 96.15. I could explain the math to you in how they will arrive at that figure but I am sure you do not want to hear it. Right now MBI has a 78.90. When they roll out of Rochester they will likely have a 94.00+ For example- The Bucs have an image in DCA over the last 6 years of being THE corps to beat. Undefeated for 6 straight years and consistently demonstrating a superior quality performance, design, and level of preparation. It will be difficult for any panel to judge a Bucs performance and feel another corps that evening performed better- unless that other corps was SIGNIFICANTLY better. The image of Bucs being number 1 will sometimes carry the corps farther than their actual performance that evening, especially at the start and end of the season. I think there is a chance to see movement between Hurcs, Empire, and Cabs (up or down a placement between them) but thats really about it. I totally agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 What you guys are talking about it called "competitive inertia", and it's a giant load of crap concocted by people that don't understand why their hasn't broken into the top tier. it's the same folks that talk about slotting. Bucs won in Wildwood, Bridgeport, and Wayne because they were clearly the best corps on the field, and not just by a little bit. They won in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 because they were the best corps on the field at finals. They got no bonus points for previous wins, and winning one year doesn't carry over to the next year. Judges don't give a bonus for previous success. If they did, they wouldn't be judging for very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 smiling politely now you have the best of both worlds... guess I'm glad I opened my mouth... thanks for the nice comments. Of course, the way I've been lately, I'd forget the scores for Saturday night, but if you wanted to know the color of the Warren Cornplanters uniforms in 1962, I'm your man (ugliest brown you ever saw - sorry to all you Cornplanters out there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.