mellophonium Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Disagree, Cavies had more drill on the field than almost anyone, with 225 sets on the field for opening night. They shouldn't be criticized because they have a harder visual program than everyone else . Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMe Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Disagree, Cavies had more drill on the field than almost anyone, with 225 sets on the field for opening night. They shouldn't be criticized because they have a harder visual program than everyone else . The only way you could say that having 225 sets on the field means they have more drill is if a set was a consistent unit of measure....which it of course isn't. From all reports, what the Cavies have on the field is very good....but lets not make excuses for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Disagree, Cavies had more drill on the field than almost anyone, with 225 sets on the field for opening night. They shouldn't be criticized because they have a harder visual program than everyone else . so do you know how many sets the other corps had? you are just assuming that the 225 that cavies have is more than everyone else. And even though all the other corps marched something until the end of the music as opposed to Cavies who stood still at the end, the other corps also had sections of their drill which was either standing or very slow evolving, meaning many more sets will be filled into that space. So just because the other corps marched till the end doesn't mean they were more complete, they just chose to have their standing sections in the middle of the closerinstead of the end. Believe me that with the exception of the blue Stars and crown, I wouldn't expect the closer drill in any of these shows to resemble what we saw that first weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 The only way you could say that having 225 sets on the field means they have more drill is if a set was a consistent unit of measure....which it of course isn't. From all reports, what the Cavies have on the field is very good....but lets not make excuses for them. There really is no need to make excuses for them. They are obviously the front runner right now. They marched all but the last 45 seconds of their show at the first couple of shows. 10 minutes of show was on the field and they beat everyone because what they had on the field (even with the last 45 seconds - 1 minute standing still) was deemed by the judges to be more effective and better performed than everyone else. Also, more sets to learn = more time to learn it. That is just how it is. They have a lot of drill in their shows. They always do. So it takes them a bit longer. The crowd and the judges seemed to like what they were doing just fine. It is the people who are getting beat and the people whose favorite corps are getting and the people who just want something to complain about that have a problem with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 This is all pure speculation as we're way too early to tell, but I wonder if the incentive for the TOC corps to come out strong given they were all going to compete at the same first show of the season will set them apart from the beginning and make them hard to catch. It's been mentioned numerous times that the TOC corps (by and large) were more prepared with higher quality performances out of the gate than what we've seen in years past. Does the extra incentive carry through the season or do I have too many marigold seeds in my oatmeal? The other corps outside of the TOC representatives got more time to work on their show. Less time traveling and performing. They also don't have to rehearse all of the extra stuff for encore that the TOC corps have to. That is a pretty huge advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMe Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I agree...there is no need to make excuses, so why do it? There's no way to say that they have more drill to learn than other corps, it's not like everyone else is doing elevator drill, that just goes to making excuses again. What they put on the field is very good...they're working at putting the rest on the field...that's it. There really is no need to make excuses for them. They are obviously the front runner right now. They marched all but the last 45 seconds of their show at the first couple of shows. 10 minutes of show was on the field and they beat everyone because what they had on the field (even with the last 45 seconds - 1 minute standing still) was deemed by the judges to be more effective and better performed than everyone else. Also, more sets to learn = more time to learn it. That is just how it is. They have a lot of drill in their shows. They always do. So it takes them a bit longer. The crowd and the judges seemed to like what they were doing just fine. It is the people who are getting beat and the people whose favorite corps are getting and the people who just want something to complain about that have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Corps Guy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) TOC?? Here are the averages of the top 10 corps through 22 June, 2011. Look who is already ahead of some TOC Corps. It can, and will be done. I predict that at least one TOC will not repeat if it continues next year. There are at least two corps that could be in the mix that have yet to compete. Now that the head-to-heads have started with on TOC/Non-TOC corps, we will see even more movement. The Cavaliers 74.583 Blue Devils 73.400 The Cadets 72.813 Carolina Crown 72.625 Phantom Regiment 69.988 Bluecoats 69.750 Madison Scouts 69.100 Santa Clara Vanguard 68.638 Blue Stars 66.817 Blue Knights 65.100 Edited June 23, 2011 by Old Corps Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 TOC?? Here are the averages of the top 10 corps through 22 June, 2011. Look who is already ahead of some TOC Corps. It can, and will be done. I predict that at least one TOC will not repeat if it continues next year. There are at least two corps that could be in the mix that have yet to compete. Now that the head-to-heads have started with on TOC/Non-TOC corps, we will see even more movement. The Cavaliers 74.583 Blue Devils 73.400 The Cadets 72.813 Carolina Crown 72.625 Phantom Regiment 69.988 Bluecoats 69.750 Madison Scouts 69.100 Santa Clara Vanguard 68.638 Blue Stars 66.817 Blue Knights 65.100 yeah average score doesn't quite work in this scenario since the corps you are trying to boost has only 1 show under their belt (with no direct competition) and the TOC corps have 3 shows and started earlier. Unfortunately last nights Fairfield show got rained out or we would have seen exactly how they would have stood up against 2 of the TOC corps, but I guess they see one tonight or tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I agree...there is no need to make excuses, so why do it? There's no way to say that they have more drill to learn than other corps, it's not like everyone else is doing elevator drill, that just goes to making excuses again. What they put on the field is very good...they're working at putting the rest on the field...that's it. I agree. I am not going to get into the discussion of what corps are doing more than others. That is for the judges to decide, because everyone thinks that THEIR CORPS does MORE than everyone else. I actually don't think that the cavaliers do more than everyone else. I think they are different. The do more in their own way, just like BD does more in their own way. It is all relative and it all gets sorted out in the end (as long as it is clean). What is bothering me a bit is how all of the sudden people are enraged about a couple of corps (BD & Cavaliers) not being complete. I have been around the activity for a while and it is normal for a few corps to not being done the first few shows. The reasons for not being done could be a multitude of things. I can tell you that it is not for lack of effort or planning (especially not for the big boy corps). Either way, I could care less. It just perplexes me that people can be so angry about a couple of corps not being complete on June 18th. It's June 18th for cryin out loud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 From what I gather from other comments on here the Cavies were the only corps without a complete show (i.e. didn't march for the last 2 to 4 minutes (depending on what post is correct)but they won by 1.75 on night 2. So maybe if someone else would have arced it up for the whole show they would have been considered more prepared. From what I gather the Cavies were cleaner than the rest but it seems nothing has changed from before - you get rewarded for being less prepared. This is a common fallacy. The Cavaliers were actually MORE prepared because they put more time into the first 10 minutes of their show rather than try to spread themselves thin and complete the other 1.5 minutes. And they still get judged for playing the final minute or so in an arc. But what garnered them the big score was how well prepared they were with the first 10 minutes. The scoring system is not a tic system. They don't take points off for unfinished shows. In the early season it is considered OK to not be completely finished with things. Later on that might hurt you, but early it does not. I am in agreement with DCI on this. I would rather see 10 minutes of something extraordinary (ha, no pun intended) rather than something average, but finished. Who cares? Call me when it's good. Plenty of shows do get completed before the first competition, yet some of those are not fully thought out. Some would have been better left incomplete and perhaps the staff can take more time to get things right. HALF of great is far better than ALL of average. It's no different with grading in school. Take the student who completes a test, does so on time, but only gets a C. Just didn't know the material, but hey, they finished. Well, so what? They still got a C. Then there is the student who struggles to finish, leave about 3 or 4 questions unanswered, but they did "A" work. Even with the few questions unanswered the teacher can see that this person spent more time studying, got more answers right, and clearly has a better understanding of the material. For that they get an "A-", maybe a "B" or "B+." Either way, this is a great example to learn from. Completing a field show filled with average to below average ideas and performance levels only gives us more AVERAGE. Completing less field drill and music for the sake of quality gives us MORE quality. Quality should always be rewarded. It's not a race. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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