What If: Madison Scouts in the Top 8

[Gary Matczak]

If Scouts get in,.................They should make a motion to disolve the TOC for the overall good of the activity,.................

[SFZFAN]

If Scouts get in,.................They should make a motion to disolve the TOC for the overall good of the activity,.................

We have a winner!

[BRASSO]

The Scouts are a member of DCI. Why would they not do TOC since that is now part of DCI? Are you suggesting the be rebels and break away from DCI?

Well to be fair here, nobody is suggesting that any Corps become " rebels and break away from DCI". And lets not forget and that when you raise the topic of threatening to consider " breaking away from DCI ", it WAS on the minds of a few of the TOC Corps Directors, NOT on any of the minds of non TOC Corps Directors. 'Just wanted to set the record straight here on that.

[BigBadMadMan]

I just recall you feeling differently a few years ago for the California TOC.

Oh, you mean the TOC shows that were an ACTUAL Tour of CHAMPIONS, that happened AFTER finals, that were unscored, and were throwing a bone to west coast drum corps fans?

You're right. Had no problem with that.

[nero14]

Somehow- I don't see you feeling the same way if scouts had been out of the California TOC but in the 2011 TOC. But that might imply some pro-scouts bias that... Well we all know you don't have any of that.

[Armyscout]

If Madison was in the G8 right now something tells me it wouldnt be a problem right now...

However, i do agree with the fresh start.

Ohh I dont think so, as much of a cliche as it is, Madison is a unique corps that holds principles to a higher degree than the dollar sign regardless of where DCI places them in a given year.

[BigBadMadMan]

Somehow- I don't see you feeling the same way if scouts had been out of the California TOC but in the 2011 TOC. But that might imply some pro-scouts bias that... Well we all know you don't have any of that.

Well, then that's an incorrect assumption. However, had the Scouts been in the top 8 the last 3 years, I highly doubt they would have been part of the G7-G8 coup and would have given a couple of others more strength to stand up to the rest.

But, nice to see you glossed over the points I made above which blew holes in that theory and resorted to the ad hominem. Surely there's no Bluecoat bias there...which we know you don't have.

Edited July 1, 2011 by BigBadMadMan

[BRASSO]

Why's that? If they wanna do a kickoff show with the Top 12 from the season before, then by all means.

But this series of shows at the exclusion of other corps is nonsense. How do you start each season with a clean slate when you're already behind the 8 ball? I mean, isn't that the point of a NEW season...to have a fresh start? Yet, we have this series of shows allowing for more head to head matchups among the Top 8. That clearly shows that those corps are "valued" more than others. This is a rich get richer scheme if there ever has been one. Which, I'm sure, was the intent from day one. How others can't see that is beyond me.

And to your assertion in the Murfreesboro thread, this is a principle issue for me. So no, I would not support it in the least.

This poster " gets it ". I'll buy you the next round my friend.

If the TOC becomes a G12.... it still blows. I personally wouldn't hold it against any marcher in a Corps in the mix, but the concept of the establishment of a Group Slotting System within the DCI World Class Division is simply indefensible from anyone that values the principle of fair competition, or from anyone that supports the health and growth of the activity. No other competitive sport or youth activity positions a competitive group in a favored position the following year based upon what they did in a previous year or years. If some poster(s)would like to tell us which other sports or youth activities does this, I 'm all ears. But they can't. Thats' because no other sport or youth activity would allow such a rigged system to be put in place that advantages a few groups in competition over other groups in competition in the same division, and does so before Labor Day, and for the following competitive season the following year. That said, I can understand why The Cadevaliers and the other Coat Tail Corps in the G8 would LOVE this deal. If I'm them, and I can get away with it, then all the power in the world to me. Lets face it, thats a deal made in competitive heaven for me and the others in my competitively slotted sub group within my competitive division.

Edited July 1, 2011 by BRASSO

[BigBadMadMan]

This poster " gets it ". I'll buy you the next round my friend.

If the TOC becomes a G12.... it still blows. I personally wouldn't hold it against any marcher in a Corps in the mix, but the concept of the establishment of a Group Slotting System within the DCI World Class Division is simply indefensible from anyone that values the principle of fair competition, or from anyone that supports the health and growth of the activity. No other competitive sport or youth activity positions a competitive group in a favored position the following year based upon what they did in a previous year or years. If some poster(s)would like to tell us which other sports or youth activities does this, I 'm all ears. But they can't. Thats' because no other sport or youth activity would allow such a rigged system to be put in place that advantages a few groups in competition over other groups in competition in the same division, and does so before Labor Day, and for the following competitive season the following year. That said, I can understand why The Cadevaliers and the other Shirt tail Corps in the G8 would LOVE this deal. If I'm them, and I can get away with it, then all the power in the world to me. Lets face it, thats a deal made in power grab heaven for me and the others in my power grab group.

Bingo. They're intentionally pushing out smaller corps who could benefit financially by being at those shows. Are they sharing that money with the local corps not allowed to attend and perform? If drum corps is a "community", then why are we intentionally pushing down certain members of our community in favor of others? If corps were already struggling then this ridiculousness is ensuring that there is less to go around. So much for supporting fellow corps and healthy competition.

I would PRAY that the Scouts would never be involved with such an affront to the activity. BRASSO nailed it. What other youth activity creates a slotting system within their ranks that places others competing groups at a disadvantage? This is an excellent argument for the creation of an INDEPENDENT judging organization for judging DCI shows that operates OUTSIDE the umbrella of DCI. Having everything under one roof just creates opportunities for abuse, IMO.

Edited July 1, 2011 by BigBadMadMan

[jonnyboy]

I really hope that if Madison breaks into the top 8, they decline participation based on the root cause the TOC started....the G7. I sincerely hope that if Madison is planning on dissing the TOC that they place higher than 8th this season....the higher the better.

Madison is in a unique position to put their foot down and say no to the power hungry DCI directors out there. They have 2 World Championships and they were lumped into the "other" corps by the original G7.

The only thing that would make this scenario better is if two of the original G7 corps drop out of the top 8, and two fresh faces said NO to the TOC. We'll see.