What If: Madison Scouts in the Top 8

[garfield]

Thanks for making my point...EVERY CORPS has fair shot at making semi finals, a fair shot at making finals...and thus a fair shot at making the top 8. No corps is being denied their chance to make it into the top 8. The REWARD just happens to come the following season.

Rewards the following season has ALWAYS been part of DCI's history. The higher you placed the PREVIOUS year, the later you get to perform in shows the following year. At one time, the higher you placed in the PREVIOUS year, the more appearance money you would make the following year.

When YOU marched in the Scouts, the amount of money they would be paid the following year was determined by your placement the previous year. The Scouts OFTEN benefited from placing in the top 6 and making more appearance money than did the corps that finished out of the top 6, the top 12, etc. What's the difference with the top 8 being rewarded now?

There are rewards that come with placing higher. TOC is now one of those rewards.

I think you're being awfully naive here, Chicago. This years' TOC was formed out the compromise meted out to the G7. The threat is that if the G7 don't (or didn't) get what they wanted they would bolt from the activity and attempt it on their own. In the name of peace and harmony the TOC was hatched, not out of love of the idea of splitting "the draw" from the rest of the activity.

The threat still exists, and it will be interesting to see who gets the blame if the TOC doesn't produce the attendance and revenue expected, and if a failure will prompt the G7 to resurrect their plans all over again.

Simply, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[BigBadMadMan]

Thanks for making my point...EVERY CORPS has fair shot at making semi finals, a fair shot at making finals...and thus a fair shot at making the top 8. No corps is being denied their chance to make it into the top 8. The REWARD just happens to come the following season.

Rewards the following season has ALWAYS been part of DCI's history. The higher you placed the PREVIOUS year, the later you get to perform in shows the following year. At one time, the higher you placed in the PREVIOUS year, the more appearance money you would make the following year.

When YOU marched in the Scouts, the amount of money they would be paid the following year was determined by your placement the previous year. The Scouts OFTEN benefited from placing in the top 6 and making more appearance money than did the corps that finished out of the top 6, the top 12, etc. What's the difference with the top 8 being rewarded now?

There are rewards that come with placing higher. TOC is now one of those rewards.

Still not quite there. The difference is that you weren't placed at a competitive disadvantage and denied ANY revenue stream by being barred from participation in any shows, save finals (and in recent years Murfreesboro). Those were STILL based on what happened THAT year. Earlier or later performance times didn't bar you from competition and you were still getting paid for performing. Even more so with the G7's desired rules that you place Top 8 for 2 out of 3 consecutive years (brought on by the fact that Phantom dropped out for a year which TOTALLY showed it was a self-serving move).

So it's still not an apples-to-apples comparison and is seemingly grasping at straws to draw parallels.

[BigBadMadMan]

Wow...I'm glad at least someone was ballsy enough to be honest and vote that they are someone who dislikes the Scouts. Kudos to whoever you are!

[TubaJon]

Ok ok ok... I am sorry, but the TOC is not killing out the other smaller corps. The only shows that the G7+1 are making extra dough at, are the TOC events, so therefor all the other billion shows, everything is still being divied up the same. If you are not a corps competing at a TOC event, you can A) Just go to another show that day. or B) Make every TOC show day, a straight up rehearsal day so you can make a push yourself to take your group into a TOC event the next year and get the little extra cash that they make there. There are a lot of people on here who believe that the Madison Scouts are somehow above that, well I to believed that my Blue Stars were above it, one would aslo believe that any of the corps in the G7 were above that when you look at their reputations. These are all classy organizations. Its like saying that the Scouts are classier than, Santa Clara Vanguard, Phantom Regiment, The Cadets, Carolina Crown, Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Bluecoats, and the Blue Stars? The Madison Scouts, are an extremely classy corps, but they are in no way "better" than any other corps, in the G7 or not. In a day and age where corps are getting down on there knees begging us for us to vote for them in some contests so they can get more money, no one is above wanting a little more money to support their group. To somehow think that DCI is killing off smaller groups, but then somehow giving even open class corps the oportunity to make World finals, is a little off target i think.

[DrumManTx]

Ok ok ok... I am sorry, but the TOC is not killing out the other smaller corps. The only shows that the G7+1 are making extra dough at, are the TOC events, so therefor all the other billion shows, everything is still being divied up the same. If you are not a corps competing at a TOC event, you can A) Just go to another show that day. or B) Make every TOC show day, a straight up rehearsal day so you can make a push yourself to take your group into a TOC event the next year and get the little extra cash that they make there. There are a lot of people on here who believe that the Madison Scouts are somehow above that, well I to believed that my Blue Stars were above it, one would aslo believe that any of the corps in the G7 were above that when you look at their reputations. These are all classy organizations. Its like saying that the Scouts are classier than, Santa Clara Vanguard, Phantom Regiment, The Cadets, Carolina Crown, Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Bluecoats, and the Blue Stars? The Madison Scouts, are an extremely classy corps, but they are in no way "better" than any other corps, in the G7 or not. In a day and age where corps are getting down on there knees begging us for us to vote for them in some contests so they can get more money, no one is above wanting a little more money to support their group. To somehow think that DCI is killing off smaller groups, but then somehow giving even open class corps the oportunity to make World finals, is a little off target i think.

[BigBadMadMan]

Ok ok ok... I am sorry, but the TOC is not killing out the other smaller corps. The only shows that the G7+1 are making extra dough at, are the TOC events, so therefor all the other billion shows, everything is still being divied up the same. If you are not a corps competing at a TOC event, you can A) Just go to another show that day. or B) Make every TOC show day, a straight up rehearsal day so you can make a push yourself to take your group into a TOC event the next year and get the little extra cash that they make there. There are a lot of people on here who believe that the Madison Scouts are somehow above that, well I to believed that my Blue Stars were above it, one would aslo believe that any of the corps in the G7 were above that when you look at their reputations. These are all classy organizations. Its like saying that the Scouts are classier than, Santa Clara Vanguard, Phantom Regiment, The Cadets, Carolina Crown, Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Bluecoats, and the Blue Stars? The Madison Scouts, are an extremely classy corps, but they are in no way "better" than any other corps, in the G7 or not. In a day and age where corps are getting down on there knees begging us for us to vote for them in some contests so they can get more money, no one is above wanting a little more money to support their group. To somehow think that DCI is killing off smaller groups, but then somehow giving even open class corps the oportunity to make World finals, is a little off target i think.

All I can say to that is actions speak louder than words. And the actions of those corps (once again, looking at FACTS) is weightier than random message board speculation. Your suggestions were a somewhat simplistic telling of a more complex story.

And to make the inference that some people might think the Scouts are "better" than those corps you mentioned...well...those corps sure did show that they thought they were "better" than everyone else. Food for thought.

Edited July 2, 2011 by BigBadMadMan

[TubaJon]

All I can say to that is actions speak louder than words. And the actions of those corps (once again, looking at FACTS) is weightier than random message board speculation. Your suggestions were a somewhat simplistic telling of a more complex story.

And to make the inference that some people might think the Scouts are "better" than those corps you mentioned...well...those corps sure did show that they thought they were "better" than everyone else. Food for thought.

Idk, those words were pretty loud my friend. Im going to try my best to disassociate what you just said, from the Madison Scouts, and pray that the Madison Scouts dont all share this opinion.

Edited July 2, 2011 by TubaJon

[BigBadMadMan]

Im going to try my best to disassociate what you just said, from the Madison Scouts, and pray that the Madison Scouts dont all share this opinion.

Why? I said nothing controversial. And I'm 100% firm in my belief that the Scouts would not have been associated with it (the secret G7-G8 coup) had they even been in a position to be. You're right, I don't speak for the Scouts. I'm not a representative of the organization, nor have I ever claimed to be. I'm just a fan, fmm, and a guy who loves this activity. Same as you. But I certainly will challenge what I believe are misguided assumptions or statements. And your comments were very light on "fact".

Edited July 2, 2011 by BigBadMadMan

[TubaJon]

Why? I said nothing controversial. And I'm 100% firm in my belief that the Scouts would not have been associated with it had they even been in a position to be. You're right, I don't speak for the Scouts. I'm not a representative of the organization, nor have I ever claimed to be. I'm just a fan, fmm, and a guy who loves this activity. Same as you. But I certainly will challenge what I believe are misguided assumptions or statements. And your comments were very light on "fact".

You just questioned the integrity of 8 (not to mention the unknown number of other corps that would love to be competing at a TOC event) of the classiest corps in the history of drum corps as an activity. Thats very controversial.

[BigBadMadMan]

You just questioned the integrity of 8 (not to mention the unknown number of other corps that would love to be competing at a TOC event) of the classiest corps in the history of drum corps as an activity. Thats very controversial.

Oh, you bet I did. But they placed their integrity on the line when they did what they did. That wasn't my fault or the fault of anyone else here. And if you think I'm the only one beating that drum, go back for some light reading. What they did was controversial...calling them on it, not so much.