MotorCityMusician Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 How can someone get 10 in percusson 9 in brass but 6 in ensemble when its the other two .combined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriTroop Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 How can someone get 10 in percusson 9 in brass but 6 in ensemble when its the other two .combined? Different judges, different show observation position, different criteria different personal perspectives, not as much "slotting" based on other judging areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I was curious about these results, so I ran some numbers on Boston and Madison, since they have been in a lot of shows together. Boston had been trending up towards Madison anyway, and it had been nearly a week since they'd faced off between Minneapolis and Denton. But some things were surprising. So here's data. I'm giving the average spreads in each caption across all 11 shows prior to Denton in which both Madison and Boston participated, then the average in the past five shows in which they've both competed, and then the spreads from Minneapolis and Denton. If the "Avg 11" and "Avg 5" numbers are close, then the spread has stayed steady through the season. If it's a big difference, then the change indicates a trend in scoring. The spread is Madison's margin over Boston, ie, positive numbers mean Madison outscored Boston. Negative means Boston outscored Madison. Caption | Avg 11 | Avg 5 | Minn | Denton GE Visual | +0.48 | -0.04 | -0.40 | +0.10 GE Music | +0.57 | +0.54 | -0.30 | -0.20 Vis Perf | +0.47 | +0.44 | +0.70 | -0.20 Vis Ens | +0.50 | +0.30 | +0.50 | +0.30 Guard | +0.29 | +0.14 | +0.70 | -0.30 Brass | +0.37 | +0.50 | +0.70 | -0.10 Music Ens | +0.25 | +0.44 | +0.60 | -1.00 Perc | +0.03 | -0.26 | -0.90 | -0.60 Total | +2.15 | +1.28 | +0.45 | -1.05 So the most out of line at Denton, I'd say, were Visual Performance, Brass, Guard, and Music Ensemble. GE Music seemed out of line in both Denton and Minneapolis. GE Visual was skewed against the Scouts in Minneapolis, but Guard was favorable to Madison in that show. So who are the judges and what are their biases? Well, it turns out if you go back through all the scores from each judge, and compare the spreads they give to each pair of competing corps to how other judges ranked those pairs of corps over the season, you can find some interesting patterns. But, that's dangerous territory, so I'm going to spend more time thinking about my approach to those numbers before I go there. It's worth mentioning that best I can tell, this show was the first take on Madison for the four music judges. And for Boston, this was two of the music judges' first take, and two of those judges' second take. Edited July 22, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Madison, BK, Boston and Blue Stars all have top 8 talent period. Do certain environmental issues affect corps? Yes, everyday, but I gaurentee a staff is not going to tell their members that the weather and sickness is to blame... Why is it so hard for people to believe that BK and Boston ARE LEGIT! To be clear: I'm not trying to make excuses for the corps. I'm only talking about the score swings (so I guess I'm making excuses for the judges ). I agree that these corps are all very close. And so if judging is being done fairly and objectively, these guys will be changing position on a regular basis. I like all four shows and all four corps, and I want them all to do well. I'm enjoying every minute of the competition. Can't wait to see how Odessa and SA turn out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 To be clear: I'm not trying to make excuses for the corps. I'm only talking about the score swings (so I guess I'm making excuses for the judges ). I agree that these corps are all very close. And so if judging is being done fairly and objectively, these guys will be changing position on a regular basis. I like all four shows and all four corps, and I want them all to do well. I'm enjoying every minute of the competition. Can't wait to see how Odessa and SA turn out. I went to give you a +1 but a message came up and said I had met my positive quota!! LOL I CAN'T BE POSITIVE THE REST OF THE DAY!!! Negative is another story... RED MINUSSES FOR EVERYONE!! I'm going Santa Clara on everyone!! Wes P 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 How can someone get 10 in percusson 9 in brass but 6 in ensemble when its the other two .combined? Because percussion and brass are field captions and ensemble is not. Also the criteria on the sheets are different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooldbc Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 heatherejc heatherejc Ok. It's just fun to watch the DCI judges on the field constantly dodging band members about to run them over. Attention all current and future MMs: If they get in your way - RUN THEIR *SS OVER! You have to march in formation. The judges do not. It is their responsibility to stay out of your way. If they get in your way, then you have permission to become a lawnmower. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooldbc Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 BD show next year will include.... get ready... "Chairs! Mirrors? and Giant White Cubes! Maybe Gibbs can add to his corps coffers by getting a new sponsor - IKEA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardman Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Now, those Cavie guard uniforms are a Technicolor nightmare, as I have described previously. They look like a designer watched a rerun of the old children's show "Fraggle Rock", after taking LSD or peyote or something....Really awful. But their execution of a tough design was impeccable. Finally, please tell whoever was running the concession stand for this show to NOT RUN OUT OF BOTTLES OF WATER! Please. Thank you. I know it was oppressively hot out at this show, so I am sure sales are high. Next year, take whatever you purchased for bottled water this year, and double it. Amen on the Cavies guard uniforms. I was there also, and it was my first close-up look at them. Man, those things were just AWFUL. It's the only thing I don't like about their show, besides all of the synthesized nature boy samples at the beginning and throughout the show. As far as the concession stand goes, they didn't even have ice!! I was shocked. I used the intermission to run down to my traditional mini mart stopping place and fill my newly purchased DCI thermos with ice water. Anyway, ice should be a given, seeing how it's been super hot this year. Edited July 23, 2011 by Cardman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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