Liahona Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Like that would make any difference. There would be just as much rolling of eyes over an old thread being brought back to life. I believe I've explained this to you once before....but for everyone's benefit: Popular topics recur for a number of reasons. 1. Some time has passed since last discussed, and previous threads are not easily found. 2. People new to DCP wander in, and start a topic without realizing it has been discussed before. 3. People new to DCP wander in, actually search for topics of interest, and dredge up a months-old thread. 4. Someone has something to add to the discussion....observations of the latest season, a new train of thought, whatever. A&E is certainly not the only such recurring topic. I can guarantee that no matter how many times we've beaten these dead horses, there will be another thread someday about: - Free the Ken Kobold tapes! - What was the 1975 Muchachos prelim score? - Why were 1977 Bridgemen disqualified? - Why weren't 1989 SCV disqualified? - Why isn't (OP's favorite corps) scoring higher? - Predict DCI Championship placements - Favorite nth-place corps - Finals should be held in (OP's home state) - Check out this YouTube link (link deleted by mods) For the sake of new readers, discussions should be allowed to recur. Those of us that don't want to revisit them over and over again can simply click on some other thread instead. A DCP logical post...imagine that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Could it be, then, that maybe... just maybe, electronic sounds used as musical content or effect is not really working out the way that those who wanted to use it thought it would? Context: I like old school and new school brass and percussion books - and my tastes are hugely varied from "yeah, that's in your face awesome!" to "wow, that was really subtle and I can see how others might not like it but it's super tasty to me." And for even more personal context, I wrote both my undergrad and grad thesis on music that was serialistic in its form, and I spent hours and hours and hours weekly listening to what some would call "hard to listen-to" music - along with the "easier-to-listen-to" stuff. I'm not a musical idiot, is what I'm saying. So is this discussion a dead horse? Apparently not. If it keeps coming up, and people who are fairly musically astute (whether specifically educated in music or not) are still pointing out what they perceive as flaws in both design and judging, there is still a burr under the saddle somewhere. A good rider won't blame the saddle. I saw my first live show last night in Denton. Every single corps has a moment where I thought the following: "that would be an amazing musical moment if the synth wasn't covering it up." At one point in particular I found myself wanting to locate the staff of each corps and say "please stop covering up your fantastic ensemble of well-trained musicians with the synth sounds." So, in my book synth sounds are not working to the advantage of drum corps. They're interesting, sometimes. But a lot of the time they are just in the way. Often I can get around it by trying to ignore it, but there are some moment where I'm just totally irritated that I missed a gorgeous horn chord or part of a drum book because some designer thought those things were not good enough by themselves. My point - after a long and winding explanation - is that I will not sit down and and shut up about something like this when I feel it seriously cuts into the entertainment value of a show. And for final context, while I was sad about the B-flat's, and I worried about pit amps, those things have NOT taken away from my enjoyment of shows. So it's not like I'm yet another "dinosaur" who, in the minds of some, can't open her ears to new possibilities and just get into it and let it go. In fact I will refuse to do sit on my hands and stop fighting because I believe synths are not working. Period. (edited for subject clarity in the last sentence. I need more sleep....) I'm happily married but I love you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 It could be that, except that it's not "those who wanted to use it" originally who are still complaining about electronics in the show. The folks who are still complaining, are the folks who never wanted it to begin with. I'm not sure that a persistence of opposition to an idea, should impact the value of the idea. however....comma....you have someone like Kamaraq who is all for them and taught a corps who all but shoves it in your face...and he's calling out the system. so it's not just all dinos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I never said opposition for opposition sake, I said persistence of opposition. Let me try to explain it another way... I don't think that just because the same people who didn't agree with electronics (because they don't think they add to the show) persist in thinking that they don't add to the show, is a reason to re-examine (Yet Again!) electronics in drum corps. I'm not speaking of opposition for opposition's sake, folks have their reasons for opposing....but those reasons haven' changed since the discussion first started. There's no new information here. Which is why, IMHO, folks get annoyed about starting this conversation again. maybe some of us saw this coming the first time a cord being plugged in was legal , because we've seen how it's used in the band world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm with you here up until a point. I think there have been moments where synth has added a lot to a show. I think they're getting overused in a lot of cases from a design perspective, and a lot of groups aren't very creative in the sounds or elements that they chose to explore. But for example, I felt like the piano interludes that Crown used last year were very interesting, and created a really nice contrast in between moments. I also think that the use of electronics in the Cavaliers show this year are really interesting. The melding of "Nature Boy" with the rest of the sounds the ensemble is creating is very well done, and they are able to use the synth to set up some really interesting ambience throughout the show that wouldn't be possible without the electronics. I agree with the poster, that the sheets have got to start reflecting the current design palette. It seems like a lot of judges are overlooking the moments when the don't work. I can't say for sure having only heard judges tapes for the groups I've taught, but it certainly seems like there is a flaw in there somewhere. I still believe synth has a place, and can be used really well musically, but until ensembles are held accountable for that on the sheets, that won't become the norm. I also think amplifying the front ensemble instruments can fall into a similar category. I can't remember ever hearing the words, "your front ensemble is too loud" on a single judges tape, and I know that there have been moments when I've been up in the stands and realized that our levels were set to high, or that members were overplaying the dynamic levels we gave them, causing the levels to seem to high. The problem, again, isn't necessarily the presence of these things, its a lack of effort on the part of DCI to hold those groups accountable for those moments. I certainly understand the concerns, and would like to see them fixed, but the fact is, A&E isn't going away. The best thing we can do is push for better handling of those issues. When groups are regularly held accountable in the scores for those issues, they will have the motivation to get them fixed. :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I do not go by the nic name Howdy anymore, respectfully. I ask that you be so kind as to respect my wishes. The Mods being unwilling to change my DCP name from Howdy to Mikey only makes matters worse. My friends in the drum corps world all call me Mikey. Thanks for understanding, MIKEY yet someone calls you Howdy and you reply 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I promise you, a Corps can be competative without synthesizers. Electronics and Synthesizers are not judged, except in the context of some percussion performance and some GE. I've yet to see a setting where either of these added to the performance or were enforcing what is on the sheets. I'd also like to point out, of the thousands of band students I work with, I've never met one in the flesh that was pro electronics. Even in the ensembles I work with that DO use them, they are generally opposed as well. actually probably not. Seeing how corps are rewarded for abusive use of thunderous goo, a corps without it will probably get killed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 probably 'cause there's ALREADY a mikey on DCP?? choose an *unused* name and I'm sure they'll change it. until then , don't complain about being called Howdy when that's your username on DCP. best post in DCP history 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Mods....what do I have to do? Do I have to personally attack someone in this thread...spin it dangerously off topic....fill it with demonic, political diatribes in order to get the thread closed? I know I would face a one month banishment...but it might be worth it. Better...can any of the mods provide me a way to search all the previous threads on the use of Electronics so I can ask you to close this one and we can add our thoughts to one of all the other previous threads on this subject? yeah mods, how dare we have rational discourse on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 It might be, if it was new information....but there's nothing new here, just the same concerns. yet attendance was dropping, tho this year shows promise. I'd say it's a valid concern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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