CuriousMe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Ok, I get that point. Thanks for clarifying. But how is persistence of opposition different from persistence of acceptance? (or persistence to force the change in the first place?) The only difference is that acceptance, by definition, accepts the changes that have happened. The folks who are persistently accepting the change aren't looking to debate electronics in drum corps again. I again reiterate my challenge to drum corps at every level: I dare you to come out with a completely synth-less show and prove that drum corps without electronic enhancements (not including pit amps) can still compete. Because that's how this bill of goods was sold to drum corps consumers. (i.e. "corps don't HAVE to use synths") So.... prove it! I think it would be great to see a corps successfully choose not to use synths. That however is a very different thing than the talk in this thread about petitions and what-not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Like them or not, electronics are here to stay. Most of these horns today play like they are in concert bands on the field. They are not the monster - power hornplayers of the past. When you can not play loud enough, mics and power amps become your friends. garbage. Surprising in such a refreshing thread topic! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, some of us obviously enjoy having it. If you're tired of the discussions, help us get rid of the electronics. I'll stop complaining about them then! The fact that this discussion continues to be played out year after year should be a wake up call for the DCI folks. I can live with amping the pit if I have to, but the sound effects, electronics, narration and singing are an embarrasment. I won't show corps that use it to folks new to drum corps, because I'm embarrassed to admit I'm in any way asscociated with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 ATTENTION CORPS THAT PLACE IN THE TOP 6 COME AUGUST: If you choose to not amplify anything other than your marimbas and use no synthesized sounds in your 2012 programs, contact me via DCP and I will cut you a check for $750. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I know $750 isn't much, but it is what I can graciously donate to someone who removes this distraction from their show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale R. Hall Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Please, call me MIKEY!!! Lighten up, Howdy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I don't think that just because the same people who didn't agree with electronics (because they don't think they add to the show) persist in thinking that they don't add to the show, is a reason to re-examine (Yet Again!) electronics in drum corps. Surely it's worth re-examining every rule change after a few years of experience, isn't it? I can accept that amps are here to stay. But there's only so much you can do to ruin a show with amps. Synths are another story. So many shows in the past three years I enjoy far far less than I otherwise might because of the synths. Just this year, Spirit and Glassmen both have put out shows that are more visually and musically thrilling than they've been in years, but the inappropriate synth impacts totally ruin it for me. I know that's just an opinion, and I'm sure a lot of people aren't bothered by it, but for me, it's like what Grampa said, it's embarrassing. I would not want to show this to drum corps newbies. I know I'm not alone in this. But what I don't get is how the lack of those synth impacts would ruin those shows for anyone else or be a serious negative at all. At best, the synths add a little color here and there. But at worst, they can ruin an entire show. That just seems like a really bad tradeoff to me. Edited July 22, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Opposition for opposition's sake is exactly what I was trying to say is NOT the motivation, at least in my case. (and I suspect I am not alone) Why is that so hard to understand? I can't speak for others. I can speak for myself, and I tried to do so when describing my context, so let me reiterate to be perfectly clear: B-flats? Wasn't sure it was a good idea, kinda sad to lose the G edge, but it hasn't impacted my enjoyment, and perception of musicality and performance is still fully present. Pit amps? At first I was sad we'd lose the purely acoustic sound, but I have found most every pit sounding well blended. I can get past the slight sound change due to the electronic element. Like B-flats, amps in the pit haven't impacted my enjoyment or perception of musicality and performance. (in fact it has made pit musicality and performance much more clear in most cases.) Synths? Does not fit the criteria at this point. (positively or at least neutrally impacts musical and performance quality perception such that enjoyment is not impacted negatively) If people still feel that there is wide-spread opposition to synths just for the sake of opposition, then so be it. But it doesn't make it true. I'm with you here up until a point. I think there have been moments where synth has added a lot to a show. I think they're getting overused in a lot of cases from a design perspective, and a lot of groups aren't very creative in the sounds or elements that they chose to explore. But for example, I felt like the piano interludes that Crown used last year were very interesting, and created a really nice contrast in between moments. I also think that the use of electronics in the Cavaliers show this year are really interesting. The melding of "Nature Boy" with the rest of the sounds the ensemble is creating is very well done, and they are able to use the synth to set up some really interesting ambience throughout the show that wouldn't be possible without the electronics. I agree with the poster, that the sheets have got to start reflecting the current design palette. It seems like a lot of judges are overlooking the moments when the don't work. I can't say for sure having only heard judges tapes for the groups I've taught, but it certainly seems like there is a flaw in there somewhere. I still believe synth has a place, and can be used really well musically, but until ensembles are held accountable for that on the sheets, that won't become the norm. I also think amplifying the front ensemble instruments can fall into a similar category. I can't remember ever hearing the words, "your front ensemble is too loud" on a single judges tape, and I know that there have been moments when I've been up in the stands and realized that our levels were set to high, or that members were overplaying the dynamic levels we gave them, causing the levels to seem to high. The problem, again, isn't necessarily the presence of these things, its a lack of effort on the part of DCI to hold those groups accountable for those moments. I certainly understand the concerns, and would like to see them fixed, but the fact is, A&E isn't going away. The best thing we can do is push for better handling of those issues. When groups are regularly held accountable in the scores for those issues, they will have the motivation to get them fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Lighten up, Howdy. I do not go by the nic name Howdy anymore, respectfully. I ask that you be so kind as to respect my wishes. The Mods being unwilling to change my DCP name from Howdy to Mikey only makes matters worse. My friends in the drum corps world all call me Mikey. Thanks for understanding, MIKEY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 garbage. Surprising in such a refreshing thread topic! It is not garbage. Like it or not it is how things are, and it is how they are going to stay. I was 100 % against electronics of ANY kind in DCI. I fought very hard against them. We lost that battle. DCI is as likely to return to requiring only 2 valve [ or p/r etc.] g bugle horns as they are to eliminate electronics. If you think that any effort to remove electronics in DCI is going to be effective you are only just fooling yourself. It is not going to happen. Our genre is changing. We are not going to go back to the way that DCI was when we marched. Mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I do not go by the nic name Howdy anymore, respectfully. I ask that you be so kind as to respect my wishes. The Mods being unwilling to change my DCP name from Howdy to Mikey only makes matters worse. My friends in the drum corps world all call me Mikey. Thanks for understanding, MIKEY Gave you a positive since I don't really understand why anyone gave you a negative for this post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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