rootofthechord Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 This thread is probably the most civil (and productive) discussion I have ever seen on DCP. I am extremely impressed. Same goes to you, Grandpa - I really appreciate the way you kept an open mind coming into this, saw the shows, and gave reasonable opinions afterwards with good information to back them up. If only more people would think and argue like you... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Great writeup, Grandpa! I was anxiously awaiting hearing your thoughts on Allentown, and you delivered and then some. Agree with you 100% on pretty much all of the comments about the synth. Surprised you went easy on the Glassmen... or have they taken out some of the over the top synth? There are many points where I have to grit my teeth, or am ready to cheer, only to have that enthusiasm sucked out of me by the goo. Including it in the show is a grave disservice to the kids on the field. However, I don't think those cringe moments are enough to keep me from going back next year. This is basically how I feel. The synth-heavy moments--especially any sound effect/sample--are often huge letdowns, and yes, they too often stomp all over what other players are doing on the field. I still go and love the experience, but I'm not going to stop complaining about poorly used electronics. Thanks again! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 You know what I think really bothers me the most? It's not knowing for sure if the sound I hear is coming from the kids in the hornline, or from a pre-programmed sound file. Sometimes it's obvious, with those horrible goo notes I described above. The rest of the time, I'm not sure. What that the hornline or was that the synth? It's almost like watching the olympic athletes and wondering if that was a natural, human performance, or an artificially enhanced one. I really don't like that ambiguity. It cheapens the whole performance, in my view.... AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 I still go and love the experience, but I'm not going to stop complaining about poorly used electronics. I don't know of any other channel to get those reactions across to DCI. I've read that some directors and designers read these threads so I think it's almost a responsibility to let them know when we feel something is letting the crowd down. In fairness, that also means we have to be just as willing to say when something is going well. I tried to get both points across in my original post. My thanks to you and everyone else for the kind generosity on my somewhat tired ramblings last night. It's been very interesting to see all the reactions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Sound effects - what was the killer bee buzzing I heard in a couple of shows? What purpose did it serve other than to annoy? Same for the moog sounds, B-move sci-fi special effects, etc etc. I'm sure they're intended to set a mood, and they certainly do, but not the one you want, if you know what I mean.... I think that'd be the Glassmen you were mentioning there. The first time they did the buzzy thing, I was . The second time I was . The third time I was . Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think that'd be the Glassmen you were mentioning there. The first time they did the buzzy thing, I was . The second time I was . The third time I was . Mike Might have been Glassmen. Definitely Crown during symphonic dances. Again - I really fell for Crown - bought a t-shirt, just downloaded some of their pre-season APDs from FN, the whole 9 yards, but can someone on their staff please explain what that was all about? It sounded like somebody kicked a wasp nest.... Edited August 8, 2011 by Grandpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Now worries on us not being around.. the Bridgemen are back and plan to stay...... Plus with our new feeder corps connection to Jersey Surf, it's a sure thing times 10!! I'm sorry, I read the press release and the Brigamania announcement. I didn't see mention of a feeder corps connection. Are you sending the young kids you get to Surf? Are you expecting Surf kids to come to the Bridgemen alumni corps? Can you give us some details on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskl3rings Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Grandpa, nice post. I also agree that the pendulum has swung too far toward over-amplification, goo-makers,and pits stepping on the natural wind and percussion sounds. My view on pits is really retro in that I would not miss them if they went away entirely (not that, that will ever happen). Just think of how much money the corps could save in equipment and transportation costs! My last year in corps (1974) was the first year that keyboards were legal in DCI. As a lead soprano, I really hated having my part doubled by the tinkling of the bell player. Now, the use of the percussive keyboards has come a long way since that time and I can appreciate the nuance and texture which they can add when used right. However, I still maintain that the marginal enhancement which they add does not in most instances justify their expense. At worst, they detract from the core essence of the drum corps sound. The reality is that after 38 seasons of evolution, pits are not going away and the best we can hope for is that we do not completely lose sight of the basic beauty of the sounds which brass and drums together produce. At the least, I hope a rules change regulates the finger on the pedal tone key! WOW! Someone that feels the same way I do. I’ve never been fond of the pit! They don’t march! They have always been overbalanced and even more so now that they are amplified. I can understand that marching around with a tymp was a little over the top, but now we have 40 yards of pit equipment on the sidelines. Why do corps need a drum set in the pit? There is a whole bleeding battery on the field. One of the guys I marched with, may he RIP, and was an early developer of synthesizers. Years ago he told me with the proper sampling he could duplicate the DC sound, right from the keyboard. My question is, why do we need marching brass players and percussionist anymore? Just put a couple of keyboards on the sidelines and fill the field with a giant guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I think that'd be the Glassmen you were mentioning there. The first time they did the buzzy thing, I was . The second time I was . The third time I was . This is basically the effect that electronics have on me. The first time I see a show, it doesn't really bother me THAT much; I can, as grandpa says, "grit my teeth" and try to ignore it. But the second time seeing a show it seriously annoys me - I don't know why, maybe because I know it's coming so it's harder to ignore. It's why after one or two shows that's enough DCI for me for the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 You know what I think really bothers me the most? It's not knowing for sure if the sound I hear is coming from the kids in the hornline, or from a pre-programmed sound file. Sometimes it's obvious, with those horrible goo notes I described above. The rest of the time, I'm not sure. What that the hornline or was that the synth? It's almost like watching the olympic athletes and wondering if that was a natural, human performance, or an artificially enhanced one. One would naturally suspect that designers are hoping that doing this to cause listeners to think that the horns/drums are louder than they are. Ditto with doubling the tubas and battery. The irony though, for me, is that there are times when as a listener, I'm not giving the corps the credit they deserve, since there are surely times that I'm wondering if it's a synth, when it's not. i.e., I end up less impressed with the hornline than I should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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