How many think Cadets 2 will be the death of other corps

[LegalEagle50]

just had a thought about the C2 participants. assuming they're from all over the country like all other top8 corps, what do they do for transportation/living during the season? fly back and forth every weekend? get a room/apt near YEA (wherever) and flip burgers during the week? the logistics may not be so easy

I don’t believe that C2 members will be from all over the country. It does not make it feasible for them to do so. Despite that factor of “drum corps isn’t real life” that so many people buy into, a weekend only corps brings the fact it IS real life home far more than a DCI corps does. I don’t see mommy and daddy footing bills for airfare, apartments, as well as dues and supplies for their little darlings just to be in a weekend only corps. Not now with this economy, but really, not ever. Maybe there would be a very small amount of parents who would consider it, but I can’t see a whole corps’ worth of parents doing so.

I expect the ranks of C2 to be filled with far more local kids, maybe within a 2 – 5 hour driving range from Allentown tops.

Then again I could be completely off base and C2 will commission their own place to zip around the country picking up members.

[The Oz]

<snippage>

Now here comes a YEA sponsored DCA corps with decent (not never ending) financial backing, an abundant world class staff list, and 400+ young adults foaming at the chance to be apart of Cadets 2012. Now I'm sure plenty will be turned off by the "Please march here for a year and than we will look to bring you into Cadets in 2013" speech, but also an equal number will likely accept the offer and spend their summer in Cadets2.

As for the age restriction- I agree I would rather the corps be open to all ages so that Cadets2 is on the same level as the other corps. But at the same time- The Cadets, like most other World Class DCI corps, have a very strong Alumni. I can only image if those age restrictions weren't in place, the fight for membership in Cadets2. Maybe the age restriction will in fact keep things even?

</snippage>

Two items I take difference with:

1) YEA has deep pockets for C2. I don’t think YEA is going to pull money away from USSBA or C1 to get C2 off the ground. C2 might get some hand-me-downs, but large piles of cash are not likely lying around YEA’s offices.

2) A corps of young people will always beat a corps with old people. Particularly if “old” begins at 23. And particularly if the judging is on DCA sheets.

[Gary Matczak]

Two items I take difference with:

1) YEA has deep pockets for C2. I don’t think YEA is going to pull money away from USSBA or C1 to get C2 off the ground. C2 might get some hand-me-downs, but large piles of cash are not likely lying around YEA’s offices.

2) A corps of young people will always beat a corps with old people. Particularly if “old” begins at 23. And particularly if the judging is on DCA sheets.

1. Completely agree

2. Not so much..............I see the possibility for C2 having huge turnovers in membership each year,......all age corps with some maturity (as a unit) behind them would be in a better position to prevail in competition, IMO

[The Oz]

1. Completely agree

2. Not so much..............I see the possibility for C2 having huge turnovers in membership each year,......all age corps with some maturity (as a unit) behind them would be in a better position to prevail in competition, IMO

Sorry Gary, I mis-wrote. I was trying to say in item 2 that I did not believe that a corps of under 22'ers would always beat a corps of all-agers.

I agree with your take on turnover. Particularly in the early years of C2. The established DCA corps know how the make the weekend-only scheme work. C2 will have to figure out how to be successful; experience from C1 can't be directly applied.

[2B or not 2B]

C2 has every right to start a Corps. Any kind of Corps they want. DCA is "ALL Age". They may be of ANY age. Some Corps say "18 and above". Some say "21 and above". Some say if younger than, 18 or 21, you must have a relative over which ever age. Some have no age limit in any way. SO, C2 chose the "Age Limits" it wants within the "ALL AGE" area.

I am sure DCA, will be happy to get a New Corps that meets their requirements in every other way as well. (And I am sure C2 will do that also.)

Now after saying those things. It is a matter of :

How will this effect other Corps, both in DCI and DCA. Because, IT WILL. All we can do is wait and see. It will IMO effect Jersey Surf, Windsor Regiment, Bushwackers, Reading Buc's most. But also Cab's, Fusion, Raiders etc. some also. ALL within 2 or 3 or less travel time (one way). I just do not see them being some little Class A - DCA group with just local (Allentown area) "Kids". So "Membership" wise I do see where many things can happen.

Also they will be Very DCI both sight, sound and style of doing things. That may be a + too some, but not to "me" and some others. There again. I say they have every right to do as they wish. What ever is Best for them.

Edited August 12, 2011 by 2B or not 2B

[BOSMarcher]

Staff and recruiting base.

I would venture to guess a larger budget too will benefit them.

They will recruit many of the cuts from Cadets and many of them are probably better than the average recruiting base that other corps don't neccecarly have or draw.

Also if they cap the age they will be able to do some crazy fast drill without having the age outs slowing them down.

Interesting... to be honest, I think people think the Cadets have a lot of extra money to throw around. In fact, I do not even think they are in the top 5 of operating costs in DCI. With that being said, if I wanted to march Cadets and someone told me I couldn't and should march their weekend only corps... I would probably say "thank but no thanks." Why march a weekend only corps when I was wanting to do a full tour? That is like saying that BDB provides the Blue Devils with a large source of talent to pull from. I wouldn't think that anyone auditioning for the Cadets would really feel that way, either.

I would not be worried about Cadets2. Everything will be fine. They may be good, but it won't be because of most of the reasons everyone has been saying.

[camel lips]

Interesting... to be honest, I think people think the Cadets have a lot of extra money to throw around. In fact, I do not even think they are in the top 5 of operating costs in DCI. With that being said, if I wanted to march Cadets and someone told me I couldn't and should march their weekend only corps... I would probably say "thank but no thanks." Why march a weekend only corps when I was wanting to do a full tour? That is like saying that BDB provides the Blue Devils with a large source of talent to pull from. I wouldn't think that anyone auditioning for the Cadets would really feel that way, either.

I would not be worried about Cadets2. Everything will be fine. They may be good, but it won't be because of most of the reasons everyone has been saying.

From a marketing standpoint the CADETS name will make it easier to Market the corps. Its easier to raise money with name recognition. Imagine going to someone asking for money.

Hi I am Mark and I march with the Stompgrass Hillbilies from Formona North Dakota. Please donate some money or sponsor one of our youths.

OR

Hi I am Mark and I am March with the Cadets2 From Allentown Penn. We are a DCA sister corps to The Cadets DCI world championship corps. Please donate some money or sponsor one of our youths.

Guess who Mark is more likely to get a donation for? See where I am going with that???????/

Also look at the alumni donations that pour in. A seasoned veteran from DCI like Hopkins deals with Alumni and asking for donations on a year to year basis. He is networked out the ying yang. With his experience and network he will have a very convincing and knowledgeable method of tapping alumni on the shoulder and ask "would you please donate some money or sponsor one of our youths". Heck one click of the mouse on his email list would probably generate more donations than a lot of corps make working a hot dog stand for two days. Think about that!!!

Anyone that thinks that Cadets 2 will NOT have a advantage in raising funds over some of the other corps just starting or just building a foundation are kidding themselves.

[camel lips]

Heck this thread alone is a good indication of how the Cadets Name and Hopkins will make a impact in DCA. Do you really think that a thread entitled

"Will Stompgrass Hillbillies be the death of other corps"

would generate 7 pages of discussion?

Not a chance. It would be lucky to stay on page one for a day.

[CAKES]

I see this move by YEA becoming a template for other DCI organizations looking to keep their programs alive but operate within a better budget. With DCI Open Class on the decline, I'm wondering if some of those corps are starting to look at DCA for a more flexible, but still competitive arena.

As far as Cadets2- I think it boils down to a small level of jealousy among the other corps (only a slight bit.) Programs like Fusion, Hurcs, Empire, and Cabs put a lot of effort every off season and in the winter months to bring new bodies into the corps and condition those new bodies for the summer. They also put a lot of effort into bringing in quality staff.

Now here comes a YEA sponsored DCA corps with decent (not never ending) financial backing, an abundant world class staff list, and 400+ young adults foaming at the chance to be apart of Cadets 2012. Now I'm sure plenty will be turned off by the "Please march here for a year and than we will look to bring you into Cadets in 2013" speech, but also an equal number will likely accept the offer and spend their summer in Cadets2.

As for the age restriction- I agree I would rather the corps be open to all ages so that Cadets2 is on the same level as the other corps. But at the same time- The Cadets, like most other World Class DCI corps, have a very strong Alumni. I can only image if those age restrictions weren't in place, the fight for membership in Cadets2. Maybe the age restriction will in fact keep things even?

I'm on record for not being entirely supportive of this new effort by YEA. For me- its because I really do believe they will come out in 2012 with a very strong program and be a competitive force. I would have liked to see them start small and work their way up to being a powerhouse like most other DCA corps had to instead of coming out in year 1 and dominating. I think there is more evidence to support that this will happen more than it wont.

Either way, anything that continues to support the circuit and help it flourish I welcome. If nothing else, the Top 5 will finally change in 2012.

What amazes me about all this, unless I'm mistaken, YEA has been involved with other Corps before, including a previous D.C.A. Champion. I don't recall any of these Corps all of a sudden reaping all these benefits that everyone seems to be expecting that will instantaneously change the standing of all the present member Corps of D.C.A.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brad T.]

Someone posted a few pages ago that Cadets2 will help local band programs. Granted, while the idea of a weekends only drum corps that betters individual students' marching and playing abilities is a wonderful thing. One must consider that the DCA season is 3 weeks later than the DCI season. For the most part, if a high school program has a very competitive unit, a student participating in DCI would miss perhaps a pre-camp or two before their big band camp(s). The same student would miss far less rehearsal during the week, but ultimately miss one or two weekends of football games and band shows. In Ohio, most high schools start their football season a weekend before Labor Day. I'm not sure how it is elsewhere. Also, it should be noted that Labor Day weekend is the first NCAA college football Saturday, so college aged members who are in large marching bands with strict attendance policies are also in a similar boat. There are issues with getting college students from Ohio State, the University of Cincinnati, and etc. just because of the college band attendance policies. Often, both in high school and college, some directors who either have strict attendance, or just don't really "get" drum corps will issue an ultimatum: band or corps.

I recall an issue we had last season. Two students came from the same high school. Both marched in our corps. The band director let them out of weekend band camps and everything to come to rehearsal. However, this director refused to let these students miss the football game and band competition on the weekend of DCA championships. So we had two talented musicians with us up until the big show when they were not allowed to go. Our staff talked to the director many times, but the band director just wouldn't have it.

It seems that DCI is a much better venue for students because of the early-August ending. DCA is ideal for us who do not have marching band commitments on the same weekends as Championships and everything else. That's why Cadets2 is going to be tricky. If they cater to mainly the area around Allentown, you may have large chunks or school bands wanting to join. If you get 7 people from a high school band with 60 students, they will be hurting at the performances that coincide with DCA Championships.

I don't know how other corps handle this situation, or for that matter, how high schools and colleges handle it. My high school wouldn't have been too upset if I was involved in DCA on Labor Day weekend; we didn't compete and often missed 1/4 of our 35 piece band due to sports conflicts.