Santa Clara Vanguard - GE Music and Brass Scores

[SCVBrass80]

I guess no one could see this coming: 10th in GE Music by GE Music judge #2, and 11th in Brass.

I am curious to see how long the SCV Administration is going to allow this to happen.

I think 10 years is long enough...maybe they will change by 2067. The 100th anniversary of the corps...

I doubt the current administration will do a darn thing. They have allowed the current design team to become synonymous with mediocrity and sometimes ineptness. It's easy to place the blame on the music arranger, but part of music effect is staging from the drill designer and someone is coordinating the program and someone is coordinating the staff ... Gail would have fired all of them along time ago ... So sad to see the current regime allow 5th place to equate to a great year!

BOD - here's your chance to do what's best for the corps ... protecting relationships forged in Illinois is no longer doing us any good.

Very Frustrated Alumni!

[scv_chuck]

Sorry Fsubone, but you are wrong about GR. Gail was all about being the best. He hated to lose and had no problem sacking his entire staff if he felt they weren’t living up to his expectations (WINNING). Certainly Gail wanted to expose the DC audience to more sophisticated music than the typical beat & blow that was predominant in the 60s. He also realized that part of winning was capturing the audience with melodic and emotional music. He would never endorse HIS corps doing “cerebral, avant-garde shows, shows that make you think, and actually work”. Gail’s shows would make you smile, cry and stand on your feet screaming with excitement, but never work.

Jim, Scott and Jerry were great directors, but they were more administrators. For many years Gail was the brass caption head and show coordinator. I believe Gail would be very disappointed in what has happened to HIS corps, with one exception, the members. He would be proud of the fact that the members still value and hold high the Vanguard’s tradition of class, hard work and commitment.

I agree with you oldskl3rings. I don't think there was anything avant-garde about SCV's music during Gail's tenure. Look at the shows from 1980 - 1992 ( Gail's last year as director ) and find me a piece of music that WASN'T fan friendly. Jupiter, Evita, Procession of the Nobles, Young Person's Guide, Appalachian Spring, Slava, On the Town, Red Pony, Fanfare and Allegro, Russian Christmas Music, Great Gate of Kiev, Phantom of the Opera, Carmen, Miss Saigon, and Fiddler on the Roof, just to name a few. The other pieces that I didn't mention all were easy to grasp by the common fan and all had great melodies. The last 5 years were all based on popular musicals! How easy were those to grasp!

And for the record, I marched with SCV in 1982 and Gail wanted to win!

[fsubone]

And for the record, I marched with SCV in 1982 and Gail wanted to win!

That's really cool. But as much as this hurts, gail isn't the director anymore. I marched under fiedler here, and I've only heard the stories about gail from the staff, I never had the pleasure of meeting the man himself. But as far as I know, it's still santa clara. We still have the star on the uniform. This brass staff is in their first year there, they need more that that. Consistency is what SCV needs, and they're trying to get there. Crowd connection is still a huge part of the programs, but maybe not as blatant as 2009.

[jwscv87]

Like a lot of us, Gail embraced both the performance and competitive aspects of drum corps. He wanted to produce unbelievably exciting drum corps and win. There was never any fuzz on it. We didn't get a lot of "oh, don't worry about the numbers just perform a great show." Not at all, we wanted it all. We wanted to perform a great show and bury the competition. After our finals run in 1987 Gail immediately pulled us aside under the tunnel and said, in tears, that up until that moment the 1965 Royal Airs (I believe that was the year) were the gold standard in his opinion as the greatest performance in drum corps history. We had just eclipsed that and set a new standard in his opinion. He went on to say that no matter what happens no judge can take that away. Of course, an hour later we learned we had lost by a tenth and he was overwhelmingly distraught. We all were, but that's ok. That is part of the heartbreak and joy of performing and competing.

The corps is in a different place right now, and whether we want to admit it or not it has been for the better part of nearly 20 years. I would love to see the corps become an annual contender again as much as any alum, but I don't think calling for heads is the way to get there. We have a leader with a proven track record and I am more than willing to give the current leadership time. In the meantime I will enjoy the drum corps for what it is - a very good corps that carries itself with class.

Edited August 16, 2011 by jwscv87

[oldskl3rings]

It was the 65 Royal Airs. The difference between the past 19 & Gail’s 20 plus was Gail never accepted losing. It didn’t take long after Gail left for the organization to start to accept mediocrity. I first heard it after the 93 season. Len said something at a Booster meeting to the effect. I don’t care if we ever finish higher than 7th as long as we educate the members. I almost threw-up! I remember thinking. What are you teaching, how to fail?

It’s been mentioned that it takes time to build a winner. That’s true, but build is the operative word. JW took over in 96 and the organization was in complete disarray. I’m not going to go into the damage caused by Len, but if there was going to be any year for SCV to drop out of the top 12, 96 would have been it. With a whole new staff in 96 the corps placed 5th, 97 the corps place 3rd, 98 we placed 2nd and brought home the championship in 99. That’s building a champion. Jeff’s record 5th, 7th and this year 6th or 7th. That’s not building a champion. I believe Jeff was hired because the board was tired of mediocre results and wanted to bring back the winning ways. Jeff’s performance has not matched his credentials. I’d give him one more year. Top three or the door.

[CloudHype]

wrong thread :)

Edited August 13, 2011 by CloudHype

[marchingartist]

That's really cool. But as much as this hurts, gail isn't the director anymore. I marched under fiedler here, and I've only heard the stories about gail from the staff, I never had the pleasure of meeting the man himself. But as far as I know, it's still santa clara. We still have the star on the uniform. This brass staff is in their first year there, they need more that that. Consistency is what SCV needs, and they're trying to get there. Crowd connection is still a huge part of the programs, but maybe not as blatant as 2009.

This post wins.

SCV was great in the 80's, but NONE of those shows could compare to what's being fielded today and anything in the 2000's. NONE. Why? Because the expectations and caliber of corps were completely different, for example, the 1989 Championship (one of my favorite SCV shows btw) with ALL THOSE FRACKED SOLOS! There is no way a corps can win today with soloists performing with that many mistakes. The times have changed, it gets harder and harder to win. Hell, just compare this year's top 12 with the top 12's from 2000.

Championship teams don't happen overnight, want proof? Just look at the Cavaliers. After they won in 1995, it wasn't until 6 years later did their impeccable run begin.

To all former SCV marching members, thank you for your time in the activity and for setting standards of excellence that perpetually pushed the activity forward when you marched the shows that made SCV one of my favorite corps of all time. But that was then, this is now. It really doesn't matter how this year's corps stacks up to that of yester-years. The kids and staff busting that are busting their butts out there right now day and night, THEY are the Santa Clara Vanguard.

[KAW]

At the risk of getting too preachy, let me add a comment to this thread re: SCV. The discussion here is really a symptom of a much broader social issue and I think many drum corps struggle with it. The issue is that it has become politically incorrect to state that you want to bury competition, to state that anything less than an "A" in math is unacceptable, that the process is more important than the result and as long as you're growing as an individual then the result is less important.

This thread is very closely related to the debate over Pioneer and their approach, its the same struggle.

We now have students and we are educational programs.

There's risk in stating you expect to beat everyone, because anything less than that might be considered a failure. The problem is if you take the "we just want to be the best we can be (e.g. better everyday)" then you lose perspective on what you're capable of, you're not challenged, because you will always rationalize less than the best as "its a growing process".

I realize a drum corps can't beat their members into winning a championship. In fact, I believe the hard work and talent among the members of the top 7 or so is very close, it comes down to shown design and how the staff manages the season.

So, this discussion is a mirror of a broader issue that society faces. I'd like to see it change.

For the record I hope Bluecoats bury SCV tonight. And both organizations realize they had a good season but next year needs to be better and they take specific actions to make it so.

[steeldrum]

SCV will be fine. They are very young this year, and are adjusting to a new staff. The staff is in its first year, and they are all from the 2001-2006 Cavaliers era (with some new additions). The brass caption head is a close friend of mine, and is also adjusting to this new role. They have moments of brilliance, but it will take another year before they can really start perfecting their concept of sound. It's like Tiger Woods' golf swing. It takes time.

I don't buy this "they are young" theory. There are many corps below them with mostly young members that are putting out much greater volume. Performance volume is a staff decision and reflects I think on their inability to teach them how to play with power and control, like a lot of other corps do. Imagine going to see your favorite rock band in concert and while you may enjoy the performance if the volume is too low you feel like you didn't get the full experience. Thats the way I feel when I watch SCV. The staff have sacrificed impact volume for supposively "concert sound". Well unfortunately they're not really getting that either.

I believe that the brass volume may have impacted percussion scores as well. Early season when SCV drumline was beating most everyone they played with much more energy and power, but were over-powering the brass. After watching them in the lot and listening to them at three shows over the past four weeks it seems to me the drumline has significantly dropped their volume which perhaps has hurt the judge's ability to hear clarity and technique. IMO.

Lastly, I'm concerned this year's show and challenges with brass will continue to hurt them next year and beyond in recruiting. Great brass players will choose other corps to audition for after hearing them this year and hearing/reading all of the negativity about their brass. The only way to fix this quickly is to bring in a new brass staff that will have students follow them, much as SCV did by bringing in Rennick to improve the percussion.

All this said, go VANGUARD and make tonight's performance be your best of the year!

[oldskl3rings]

SCV was great in the 80's, but NONE of those shows could compare to what's being fielded today and anything in the 2000's. NONE. Why? Because the expectations and caliber of corps were completely different, for example, the 1989 Championship (one of my favorite SCV shows btw) with ALL THOSE FRACKED SOLOS! There is no way a corps can win today with soloists performing with that many mistakes. The times have changed, it gets harder and harder to win. Hell, just compare this year's top 12 with the top 12's from 2000.

What arrogance! How long have you been a judge? It’s easy to say that corps from the past couldn’t compete with the corps today and impossible to prove. In reality programs that did what was necessary to win in the past, will do what is necessary to win in the present and future. A prime example is the Blue Devils. When Gail left, SCV lost its focus on winning. It’s time to refocus!