Santa Clara Vanguard - GE Music and Brass Scores

[jjeffeory]

Being the director of any WC corps is a difficult job. It's not just about putting a group of 100 + musicians on the football field. It's about scheduling, travel, working with volunteers, fundraising and a plethora of other jobs to numerous to mention. Being the director of SCV also adds the responsibility of maintaining the traditions of class, integrity and a winning attitude. All of the directors that followed GR were successful, to a certain extent, in two of the three requirements. A couple were even successful in fulfilling all three. What SCV has lacked, for the most part, since GR retired has been a winning attitude. Realistically, you can't win every year, but that should the goal every year. That winning attitude emanates from the director and trickles down to the parent bingo volunteer. Winning attitude means every decision; every move is made with the thought, "is this going to help us win?"

In SCV's forty-four years of existence the corps has had six directors. Here's a few interesting facts. Five of the six directors were hired on a part time basis and held other full time jobs. Gail was a school teacher. Len worked as a physiologist. JW and Rick both worked in the hi-tech industry. Jeff P. is a business owner. Jeff F. is the corps first full time director. I would also like to note that GR never received a salary. He was a volunteer. Rick lived in Auburn, CA, which is a two to three hour drive (depending on traffic) from Santa Clara.

As an alumnus I'm tired of the excuses. We had a lot of turnover in this line or that. Because of school issues we started later than everyone else. We have new staff members or caption heads. It's all about the experience or educational opportunity. BS! It's all about winning! It's time for the corps to man up and recapture the winning attitude! If the current director of staff are unable to achieve this goal, than yes it's time to find people who can.

I can assure you that Jeff wants to win. I hope SCV gets there soon, and I would like to see them return to their roots, maybe just before the broadway shows. I like them, but others on here can 't seem to stand those type of shows. I really think the programming answer lies in them doing accessible, yet sophisticated shows in new ways.

[KAW]

I don't think it's about winning. But I think at this stage/level in the game it's about not sucking. Can we call that a fair, albeit harsh assessment?

SCV supporters all wish they would place better. Are you implying you think SCV sucked this year? Harsh? Yes. Fair? Not even close. Fact is there are very few performing organizations who could top what they did this year. I can only think of 5 in all of pageantry arts, worldwide.

[wvu80]

Read my post on page 4. Oh & I'd put money on the fact you never marched DC.

I never marched drum corps, and I have a curious question; how do you have 3 rings if your last year was '73? This is a curious question and not a challenge, so if I've asked too personal a question in the middle of these heated discussion, please forgive, and feel free to ignore. It won't hurt my feelings a bit.

++

About the heated discussions: I have so much respect for opinions on all SCV sides (not the outsiders), and I almost feel embarrassed looking in on what is very much a family discussion.

I think the discussion is healthy, even though emotions run high. SCV was the first corps I fell in love with in 1981, and my love for them continues, no matter what numbers the judges give them, no matter what place they finish in.

I'll stop here before I embarrass myself any more intruding into a discussion not my place to intrude on.

Edited August 14, 2011 by wvu80

[fsubone]

All I'm going to say to people thinking SCV isn't up to par, they're still 40 for 40 in DCI finals, and they're lowest placement ever in 8th place. Look at most of the other corps out there. Cadets didn't make Finals consistently till 1980, and started in 10th. Cavaliers had some "dark years" in there before coming to the top. Phantom was in 9th just two years ago, and in the late '90s, they really slipped far. Madison has missed Finals 3 times now, and are just now trying to re-build. The only corps really more consistent than SCV has been the Blue Devils, but that's a different story.

I applaud SCV for being the only corps in history to make EVERY SINGLE FINALS IN DCI HISTORY! It's a record that they extend every year, and will never be matched, unless they fold. Santa Clara has always been one of the best corps in DCI, and they will continue to do whatever they need to do to survive, and educate kids, and entertain audiences.

[jjeffeory]

I never marched drum corps, and I have a curious question; how do you have 3 rings if your last year was '73? This is a curious question and not a challenge, so if I've asked too personal a question in the middle of these heated discussion, please forgive, and feel free to ignore. It won't hurt my feelings a bit.

++

About the heated discussions: I have so much respect for opinions on all SCV sides (not the outsiders), and I almost feel embarrassed looking in on what is very much a family discussion.

I think the discussion is healthy, even though emotions run high. SCV was the first corps I fell in love with in 1981, and my love for them continues, no matter what numbers the judges give them, no matter what place they finish in.

I'll stop here before I embarrass myself any more.

I'd guess maybe he got rings before drum corps existed?

I mean, DCI... Eh, just being a smarta** here....

Edited August 14, 2011 by jjeffeory

[wvu80]

I'd guess maybe he got rings before drum corps existed?

I mean, DCI... Eh, just being a smarta** here....

And there are rings after DCI, if you march DCA.

But at this juncture, injecting a little humor is good medicine.

[jplattSCV]

I never marched drum corps, and I have a curious question; how do you have 3 rings if your last year was '73? This is a curious question and not a challenge, so if I've asked too personal a question in the middle of these heated discussion, please forgive, and feel free to ignore. It won't hurt my feelings a bit.

++

About the heated discussions: I have so much respect for opinions on all SCV sides (not the outsiders), and I almost feel embarrassed looking in on what is very much a family discussion.

I think the discussion is healthy, even though emotions run high. SCV was the first corps I fell in love with in 1981, and my love for them continues, no matter what numbers the judges give them, no matter what place they finish in.

I'll stop here before I embarrass myself any more intruding into a discussion not my place to intrude on.

3 rings could be a reference to a circus, maybe?

[oldskl3rings]

Really? Are you kidding me? Its all about winning? Man I hope you're not a music educator. Like it or not, this is an educational activity now. Maybe it wasn't 30 years ago, but that's been part of the evolution of the activity. Is it great to win, and have success as a goal? Absolutely. But the activity is about so much more than that. Its about learning how to work as a team, how to produce under pressure, how to really work for something you care about. The fact is, drum corps is a breeding ground for the music educators of the future. I definitely wouldn't want my kids to be taught by someone who thinks it should be all about winning and nothing else.

It’s now an educational activity. That’s the biggest BS lie ever told. 30 or 40 years ago corps took in kids who had never touched a musical instrument or stepped on a football field (well maybe to play football). Staffs had to teach how to read music, how to breathe, how to make a sound and how to march. Corps today are full of music majors who have been marching for years. How does playing the same 10 minutes of music over and over again for three months or more make the members better musicians? Hate to tell you but from the time the first competitive DC circuit was formed members learned how to work as a team, how to produce under pressure, how to work for something you really care about. Oh, could that common goal be winning a championship? If winning isn’t important, why DCI doesn’t sack all the judges and just put together a series of exhibitions? Competition is what drives DCI. It’s the reason the member’s work their fannies off for hours and hours to gain a half point. DC has always been a breeding ground for music educators. Many of the people I marched with now teach. I marched with a guy you may have heard of, Wayne Downey. Try telling Wayne competition doesn’t mean crap.

Here’s my three rings. 1970 America Legion National Champions, 1971 VFW National Champions and 1973 DCI Champions. Here’s a little history lesson. Prior to DCI there were 2 championship shows, the American Legion and VFW. Truthfully the VFW was considered the championship. Unfortunately the 70 VFW was held in Miami and SCV couldn’t afford to travel to the show, which was won by the Troopers. We saw the Troop three times in the mid-west. We lost once, by penalty. We won once outright and they won once outright. Since we didn’t get to see who was top dog in Miami, I count the AL championship as a ring.

[dcikon2]

I begin by stating that I never marched in SCV or have any association with the organization. I do caution everyone on DCP to use sound judgement with what is written on this forum about the SCV organization. Placing 6th at championships is no small feet. Many other corps would love to be in your shoes. I believe there is a proper place to voice your feelings and opinions. Writing negativity about SCV on DCP could discourage potential members from auditioning.

I will say that most of my favorite drum corps shows of all time are SCV shows. I still remembers and listen to the Russian shows, Miss Saigon, Phantom of the Opera, and Carmen. I also understand that many people don't appreciate these types of shows. I just happen to prefer shows that are accessible. Though I have not jumped for joy over the present music, I do appreciate the difficulty in design.

Just a thought.

[actucker]

It’s now an educational activity. That’s the biggest BS lie ever told. 30 or 40 years ago corps took in kids who had never touched a musical instrument or stepped on a football field (well maybe to play football). Staffs had to teach how to read music, how to breathe, how to make a sound and how to march. Corps today are full of music majors who have been marching for years. How does playing the same 10 minutes of music over and over again for three months or more make the members better musicians? Hate to tell you but from the time the first competitive DC circuit was formed members learned how to work as a team, how to produce under pressure, how to work for something you really care about. Oh, could that common goal be winning a championship? If winning isn’t important, why DCI doesn’t sack all the judges and just put together a series of exhibitions? Competition is what drives DCI. It’s the reason the member’s work their fannies off for hours and hours to gain a half point. DC has always been a breeding ground for music educators. Many of the people I marched with now teach. I marched with a guy you may have heard of, Wayne Downey. Try telling Wayne competition doesn’t mean crap.

Here’s my three rings. 1970 America Legion National Champions, 1971 VFW National Champions and 1973 DCI Champions. Here’s a little history lesson. Prior to DCI there were 2 championship shows, the American Legion and VFW. Truthfully the VFW was considered the championship. Unfortunately the 70 VFW was held in Miami and SCV couldn’t afford to travel to the show, which was won by the Troopers. We saw the Troop three times in the mid-west. We lost once, by penalty. We won once outright and they won once outright. Since we didn’t get to see who was top dog in Miami, I count the AL championship as a ring.

First of all, I don't really care what rings you won.

That being said, I have no idea what the educational drive of the activity was 30 years ago, as I wasn't marching then. Maybe it was an educational activity then, maybe not. But it certainly is now. Taking kids off of the street and teaching them to play an instrument and march is a totally different kind of education from taking young musicians and preparing them to be the next generation of music educator. Maybe they aren't all becoming great symphonic musicians, but they are learning how to pay attention to the most minute details, and how to assess those things in real time. I can honestly say that I learned what real practice and attention to detail was when I was marching.

As to your generalizations, I didn't say that winning wasn't important at all. However, it certainly isn't the top priority. And no, that common goal isn't always a championship, or any particular kind of placement. Maybe it was executing the things that they were attempting at a higher level than the night before. Maybe it was a certain jump in scoring, or a box five number in a given caption.

Don't put words in people's mouths. Nobody is saying that winning isn't something these members strive for. However, your assessment that "its all about winning" is simply incorrect. Go ask your friend Wayne Downy, who said on several occasions when I had contact with him that he was not concerned about numbers or scores, but performance and emotion.

The fact is, many of the priorities that these groups are striving for have nothing, and yet everything to do with scores. Not once when I was marching did I hear anything about judges or scores. What I heard was "each rep is a performance, and the size of the crowd doesn't matter". I hear things like, "get the crowd on their feet", or "create genuine emotion", or "clean up the execution". Not once did I hear "get the judges attention".

Now, if you're doing all of those things, then naturally, the judges should be paying attention, but the fact is, judges opinions are subjective, so it makes no sense to get caught up in scores.

Like it or not, this activity, while competitive in nature, is not "all about winning". There are certainly corps that put more emphasis on that than others, but Alumni approval or not, SCV doesn't seem to be one of those corps. If you have an issue with that, I suggest you contact them, however I'm sure that they are perfectly happy with their level of success. They are, after all, called the Vanguard, so it would make sense that they would take risks and try new things, in spite of risks to their competitive success.

All of that said, like their direction or not, you're not representing the Vanguard very well by ranting and raving about how you expect more from them. I've never met a former Vanguard member that even really wanted to mention that they marched there as they didn't want to tie their opinions up with that of the organization. You might want to consider how you are representing yourself, not to mention an organization you seem to care a lot about.