corpsband Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I understand with what you are saying... However, a lot of folks on here said the same thing back in 2010 and they surprised us (even me) and placed 2nd. At the moment i'm keeping an open mind. I saw them (twice) at the first show in 2010. It was no surprise to me to see how they finished. They were just very dirty early season. But it was pretty easy to see (and especially hear) the potential in that program. In any case I don't think you can draw much of a parallel between the two years. Gaines was still there in 2010. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook'emCavies Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I saw them (twice) at the first show in 2010. It was no surprise to me to see how they finished. They were just very dirty early season. But it was pretty easy to see (and especially hear) the potential in that program. In any case I don't think you can draw much of a parallel between the two years. Gaines was still there in 2010. Yeah, but i'm talking about this forum it self. Not saying that Gains had nothing to do with "saving" 2010... all i'm saying is that he didn't do it alone. I have faith in the staff in general and they wouldn't have hired Richard Hinshaw if they didn't think he was up to the task. I think he is a great addition to this amazing staff at The Cavaliers. Not saying they are going to win (but I think they will remain in the top 5) all i'm saying is that Gains doesn't work alone. BUT you are right to say Gains was a main factor in GE and visual captions. I was just stating what I can remember reading from the forum back in 2010 if that makes sense. Besides 2010 was special for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yeah, but i'm talking about this forum it self. Not saying that Gains had nothing to do with "saving" 2010... all i'm saying is that he didn't do it alone. I have faith in the staff in general and they wouldn't have hired Richard Hinshaw if they didn't think he was up to the task. I think he is a great addition to this amazing staff at The Cavaliers. Not saying they are going to win (but I think they will remain in the top 5) all i'm saying is that Gains doesn't work alone. BUT you are right to say Gains was a main factor in GE and visual captions. I was just stating what I can remember reading from the forum back in 2010 if that makes sense. Besides 2010 was special for me. I agree with what you're saying in principle: a great design team who loses just one piece can still be a great design team. In fact I don't think the Cavies are going to drop out of finals or anything else dramatic. I expect them to still be highly competitive. But -- in my opinion -- some talents are unique and just can't be replaced. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook'emCavies Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I agree with what you're saying in principle: a great design team who loses just one piece can still be a great design team. In fact I don't think the Cavies are going to drop out of finals or anything else dramatic. I expect them to still be highly competitive. But -- in my opinion -- some talents are unique and just can't be replaced. Oh your right I completely agree Michael Gains was very talented... However, this new drill designer might actually be what The Cavaliers needed. How do we know? We actually don't know until we find out for ourselves. I do wish Michael Gains was still with The Cavaliers no doubt, but lets face it too... things don't stay the same forever. That in mind I am sure The Cavaliers were fully prepared for Mr. Gains to retire WITH HONORS. All in all... I really don't think The Cavaliers are going to be affected in anyway from this... This is a big season for The Cavaliers celebrating so many anniversaries its crazy! We just have to wait and see what happens this summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbentley0025 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 This is biased and only supported with what I know about the BK. Cavies (Cause I want Hinshaw to do well) BD Crown Cadets SCV Phantom BK Madison Bluecoats Boston Crossmen Blue Stars Yeah, I teach BK, and I'm Crossmen alum. I told you it was biased. I love this game. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclebud Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Don't worry, I will not trash you for saying anything. Everyone has a right to their opinions. In fact, I agree with you 100% that "a loud hornline is not the only basis for a great show". I also agree that Madison needs a better visual program. However, I do have a few of questions for you if you don't mind. Are you aware that Madison has inherited the entire visual and percussion staff from Carolina Crown for 2012? Knowing that in the lieu of your valid point about their visual program, do you not think that their visual program will improve in 2012? Also, it was really their percussion that held them back last year (I believe they were either 13th or 14th in percussion). Do you not also think that their inheritance of Crown's percussion team will not also help that to improve as well? I know you will probably remind me of what you said above about their "staffing changes last year". However, last year was not when they had staffing changes. 2010 was when they changed staff (and coincidentally when they also jumped 5 placements in one year). Something to consider. My opinion. I do not see any reason why Madison will struggle for 12th as you have suggested. I'm not going to predict them in the top 5 or anything crazy like that. I do, however, see no reason (especially with the visual and percussion staff changes) why the can't stay firmly planted in the top 10. Even if it's just 10th. Struggling for finals though? Seems a bit extreme to me. You are actually predicting them to get worse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclebud Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Don't worry, I will not trash you for saying anything. Everyone has a right to their opinions. In fact, I agree with you 100% that "a loud hornline is not the only basis for a great show". I also agree that Madison needs a better visual program. However, I do have a few of questions for you if you don't mind. Are you aware that Madison has inherited the entire visual and percussion staff from Carolina Crown for 2012? Knowing that in the lieu of your valid point about their visual program, do you not think that their visual program will improve in 2012? Also, it was really their percussion that held them back last year (I believe they were either 13th or 14th in percussion). Do you not also think that their inheritance of Crown's percussion team will not also help that to improve as well? I know you will probably remind me of what you said above about their "staffing changes last year". However, last year was not when they had staffing changes. 2010 was when they changed staff (and coincidentally when they also jumped 5 placements in one year). Something to consider. My opinion. I do not see any reason why Madison will struggle for 12th as you have suggested. I'm not going to predict them in the top 5 or anything crazy like that. I do, however, see no reason (especially with the visual and percussion staff changes) why the can't stay firmly planted in the top 10. Even if it's just 10th. Struggling for finals though? Seems a bit extreme to me. You are actually predicting them to get worse? The staff change I was referring to was Robert Smith as the brass arranger.... sorry about not being more precise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wompwomp Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The staff change I was referring to was Robert Smith as the brass arranger.... sorry about not being more precise. I didnt think anything was wrong with the brass book. Especially ESOM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) The staff change I was referring to was Robert Smith as the brass arranger.... sorry about not being more precise. You didn't even make an attempt to answer any of my questions. You also said very clearly that the corps needed to imrpve "visually". The brass arrangements aren't even the issue. You said yourself the problem was visual, now you are bringing up the brass arrangements? Which is it? Is the problem the brass arrangements or the visual? More importantly, lets get back to my main question... Why do you think Madison is going to get worse in 2012 and place lower? As I've said before. Everyone has a right to their opinion. However, it does help credibility when you qualify your opinion. Edited February 6, 2012 by bmjfelts1988 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCTrumpet04 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Based on absolutely nothing, here are my picks: 1. Cavaliers 2. Crown 3. BD 4. Cadets 5. Phantom 6. SCV 7. BK 8. Bluecoats 9. Madison 10. Boston 11. Blue Stars 12. Academy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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