This bothered me... A lot.

[JimF-LowBari]

If Drum Corps was so big in this area BITD, then why don't those alums advocate for, promote and teach competitive high school marching band, so we get more young people involved in that region? If you care about the activity and want it to thrive, wishing for a return to the day of local corps isn't very realistic at this point, but teaching the fundamentals through competitive high school bands gets more kids doing the activity and/or supporting and at least going to shows. Might not be the ideal answer for many of you, but it is an answer. Being in a region where many schools are leaving the competitive field, I feel as though it's for no other reason than band directors not wanting do it because its a lot of time. I think this is total BS. The only difference between competing bands and non-competing bands is that competing bands are accountable for the quality of what the directors do. At least in my area. The trend of bands going to non-competitive status will cut off drum corps at the heels. Imagine the uproar if all these schools were cutting football.......can't even imagine.

Why does it have to be competitive???? And I doubt my old school or the local school would allow volunteers off the street (aka total strangers). First you and they would have to go thru background check paperwork and then fight the school board on how many people can work with the band.

s/ Guy who was in a non-competing band for reasons I agreed with.

[HeatherM]

I was at Drums Along the Mohawk (Rome, NY) and although the overall attendance was poor ( we were able to get fantastic seats just 2 days before the show), there were several high school band groups there. The announcers made a point of welcoming them each by name in between corps. Several of the larger local competitive band programs were absent, as the show is right in the middle of band camp weeks for the bigger programs.

[7567BC]

Exactly. The DCI events I've attended have a good mix, unlike the DCA crowds.

Where was this event held in Lawrence? Maybe a more modern facility in the area instead? It seems like some shows are held in locations just because that's where they've always been. The show I went to in Glens Falls NY...like a middle school baseball field...place is not DCI quality! And will do nothing to attract NEW fans, imagine if you were to hold that event where there are HS bands in Syracuse or Albany.

I couldn't decide which of these posts to respond to so I chose this one and hopefully I can comment (my opinions mostly, anecdotal otherwise) on the attendance at BAC's show in Lawrence. First off in direct reply to this poster, the Lawrence facility (although in a rough city) is the newest in the area and the Crusaders held the first event there (The East Coast Classic) about 4 years ago. Believe me it was nice to move from Old Manning Bowl. It is a great stadium and offers terrific sound and viewing of drum corps.

I don't think you get a DCA crowd in the Boston area simply because it isn't a DCA town. DCA is just not done here tother than Senior/Alumni Corps and there is decent support for them. Massachusetts years ago used to be a hot bed of Drum Corps having over 140 corps in eastern Mass. alone in the early 70's. There were vibrant competitive local drum corps competition circuits to support the activity. Then things began to decline for many reasons, mostly financial and through it all (with many many close calls) the Crusaders found a way to survive. And I mean survive in every sense of the word. At one point there were three DCI corps (BAC, Northstar and 27) who were all based with a 20 mile radius of the city of Boston. I doubt there are many fans out there who really know the nitty gritty of what it has taken for the Crusaders to remain and to have climbed their way back to national prominence. Oh and Boston isn't the ONLY corps left here. Don't forget the Spartans in Open Class. They've been pretty successful in the recent past. Enough digression, the decline coupled with a real lack of quality competitive band programs and cutbacks to music programs in schools thank to Prop 2-1/2, has not created an atmosphere that can sustain band programs like you see elsewhere throught the U.S. And, I am sorry to say, people have moved on to other things. There may be still be some amount of competitive bands in the area, I apologize for being out of touch with that. But I feel it is safe to say they are nothing like what is seen in the south, primarily, and the support given to those programs is remarkable.

Alumni could help I am sure, but DCI might also help with marketing to band programs in the northeast. There is some small amount of exposure with Zildjain (sp?) and Vic Firth in this area. Also Berklee College of Music I know has alums from the world of drum corps as well as UMass. I think the seeds are still here, they've been dormant.

[7567BC]

Oh yeah, one last thing that might be part of why there aren't band kids at shows (specifically in Lawrence) in the numbers there are say in Texas (and Broken Arrow, OK as I saw this year) There is no band activity in the summer.

[BRASSO]

I think it may just be that particular show. I remember staff from the corps I was teaching last summer making that same comment in Lawrence. Every show I went to this summer as a spectator had a very high percentage of high school age (and below) in attendance.

The Lawrence DCI show has really struck me as more of a DCA crowd.

Exactly. DCI currently has a problem as far as youth are concerned in Massachusetts. The youth don't know, or don't care about DCI Drum Corps. Boston Crusaders do a good outreach program from what I can tell, but they have a better relationship with bands in Florida, where High School marching Bands are big. Mass. is not "into " marching bands as they are in other parts of the country. There are a few High School marching bands that are pretty good, but most are supbar compared to other parts of the country. Also, Umass is located in the Western part of Massachusetts, not near Boston. Umass has a very good band, and they have ties to Carolina Crown where Umass has staff from Crown there and have sent lots of marchers to Crown over the years. Umass- Lowell Band ( close to Lawrence, and pretty good )has had their Music Arranger send marchers to Crossmen when Crossmen were in Pennsylvania. But I agree with the observation that DCI shows in Massachusetts are filled with a decidely older crowd... mostly Drum Corps fans, alums from years ago that are still loyal and still support the activity with their attendance. There arn't many Band fans, Band alums, or currrent Band marchers in attendance in this neck of the woods at DCI shows. There was a very good sized crowd in the theatre in Lowell for the Quarterfinals cinema showing too. But it was an older crowd as well.... few under the age of 25 present, and few if any from any marching bands in the area. Its pretty much an older crowd of Drum Corps fans that go to the DCI shows now in Massachusetts. There are only a handful in attendance that have any connections to any local bands in the area. There are no High School or College band jackets to be seen anywhere... just Drum Corps alum polo shirts, T's, of Corps from long ago where there were lots of high placing competitive Drum Corps from Massachusetts.

Edited August 16, 2011 by BRASSO

[MikeN]

DCI does sample demographic data from audiences during the summer. That said, they rarely release such results. The only two I can remember was one survey in the 90's (199...5?) and one in 2002. In the 2002 version, the average audience age was mid-30's, I think 35. In the 90's one, it was early 40's.

Now, there's been a decade since then, and I'm guessing (purely off of intuition) that the average age is close to 30 now. I think the lower that age gets, the better the long-term prognosis as DCI creates larger pools of younger fans that can support the activity in their adult years.

Mike

[kac]

If Drum Corps was so big in this area BITD, then why don't those alums advocate for, promote and teach competitive high school marching band, so we get more young people involved in that region? If you care about the activity and want it to thrive, wishing for a return to the day of local corps isn't very realistic at this point, but teaching the fundamentals through competitive high school bands gets more kids doing the activity and/or supporting and at least going to shows. Might not be the ideal answer for many of you, but it is an answer. Being in a region where many schools are leaving the competitive field, I feel as though it's for no other reason than band directors not wanting do it because its a lot of time. I think this is total BS. The only difference between competing bands and non-competing bands is that competing bands are accountable for the quality of what the directors do. At least in my area. The trend of bands going to non-competitive status will cut off drum corps at the heels. Imagine the uproar if all these schools were cutting football.......can't even imagine.

Wondering why you feel that alumni should teach competitive marching band and not just ANY marching band? Why not reach out to the kids that don't compete too?

Maybe with budget cuts districts just can't afford the buses to get to the shows anymore.

I grew up in MA and went to a HS that didn't have a competitive marching band. They never competed, and still don't, because they have international award winning jazz and concert bands. (The jazz band played for the President and Mrs. Obama earlier this year.)

I had never competed EVER until my first performance with Crossmen. However, we still had instructors in HS who did corps, talked to us about corps, told us when the show was on PBS, etc. Our director didn't discourage drum corps- we could watch DCI in the band room during study hall if we wanted to. He just didn't do DCI himself and our district was not interested in funding a competitive marching band. So we didn't compete. That didn't mean that kids weren't interested in it. It just meant that we didn't have experience competing.

If you get the drum corps bug, it really doesn't matter whether or not your HS marching band competes.

Oh and another thought- could it be that parents didn't want their kids in Lawrence? When I used to work there about a decade ago, it wasn't the best place to send a carload of suburban teens. Not sure if it is any better than it was, but that was one of my first thoughts when you posted about the show attendance demographics.

I'm not disputing the fact that there are less kids involved in MA. That's been going downhill for years. I'm just questioning your premise about competitive marching bands being the sole resource for drum corps members.

(edited a few times b/c I am lacking coffee this morning, sorry!)

Edited August 16, 2011 by kac

[BAC oboist]

As a Board Member (former since 6/30/11) of the Massachusetts Music Educators Association, I am extremely pleased with DCP's acknowledgement of Massachusetts' lack of HS bands and drum corps.

Many fine points have been made. UMass-Amherst is not (in New England terms) near Boston, and many of the band kids BITD went to Garfield and XMen. UMass-Lowell is nearby, but many of their kids go to Spartans or now-defunct East Coast Jazz, as the UML Band Director arranged brass for both groups. I know one young lady who marched my SCV for the last couple of years. When she graduates, she'll be snapped up by some mid-western school who wants her expertise.

As Craig stated, NESBA is the leading HS marching organization, with MICCA also have MB shows. The bands are usually less than 75 kids. My local HS band fielded 14 kids last year, and that included kids from grades 7-12!

Massachusetts music is dire. I have been unimployed for 15 months, and my county has lost 2 more music positions this summer, that I know of. I ripped tickets in Lawrence, and tried to psych up the kids for the show. I told every elementary school kid "Cheer really loud whenever the group stops playing!" I was happy to hear youngsters follow my direction, but the 16 year old were absent.

So, for next year - If you are a Massachusetts resident: take a couple teenagers to their first DC show. As we know, once you've seen it, you're hooked. Take a school committee member! I hit the trifecta with my neighbors: a 14 year old trombone player, mom on school committee, dad on technical school committee. Call, write, text the politicians and tell them we want pre-proposition 2-1/2 bands back in Massachusetts! Did you realize Senator Rosenberg plays tuba!?!?!

Dartmouth, New Bedford, Billerica, Norwood: This is our pool. Get your kids to a show. For grant money, contact the local cultural council. Maybe they could pay for tickets.

The BAC bari line of 2010 was larger than the whole BAC horn line of mid 1980s. The lack of Massachusetts music is not new.

NO GAVA about scores, but we do about music future!

God bless, and I'll see you in Lawrence in 2012.

[BRASSO]

Also, we'd be remiss if we did not mention on this thread that any Corps that performs at a show in Massachusetts can usually be assured of an appreciative applause from enthusiastic fans at the completion of their shows. There is no talking, laughing or giggling during Corps performances, no booing, nor rude behaviors usually present, and fans give it up for all the Corps ( maybe a little more for those they liked ). It's a very knowledgeable Drum Corps crowd that attends these shows in this neck of the woods, and few Corps would ever state afterwards that the audience was " boring " or " dull " to perform before. Fans here are willing to pay a lot more for the DCI shows too. They'll readily pay $35-50. to see 4 DCI Corps compete as they did in Lawrence this year. Most know that $35-50 dollars in other shows (regionals )in other parts of the country can get you as many as 20- 41 competing Corps to watch. So Massachusetts audiences are willing to pay a lot more to see a lot less Corps too. And yet the crowd size is quite good most years in Massachusetts still, despite this. Massachusetts has also had some of the largest crowds when DCI Championships have been held in Massachusetts as well. But yes, there are few young people, or people afiliated with marching bands in attendance at DCI shows in Massachusetts. Apparently, this is quite different in other regions of the Country.

Edited August 16, 2011 by BRASSO

[emc2]

I'd like to share a few thoughts about this particular show, in no particular order..

First, someone mentioned that perhaps it is an aging facilty...it is not. Veterans Memorial Stadium in Lawrence, MA was completely renovated in 2007. It is an ultramodern, superclean facility with huge stands and a beautiful turf field surface.

Liahona, I KNOW you can provide us with a pic.....

While I don't have hard figures on the Aug 4th show attendance, my estimate would be SUBSTANTIALLY higher than 2000...in fact, I believe they sold out the reserve seats.

The biggest reason for the "older" fans, is that there are thousands of drum corps alums in the Boston area...don't forget that in the early 80s, we had 5 World Class Corps and more than 25 Open Class (Div ii-iii) corps, and these folks are all still around.

With regard to marching bands in New England (and this is an activity with which I am very involved), the predominant circuit around here is NESBA. I think there are a total of about 30 high schools bands who compete, but keep in mind that all but a half dozen or so have anywhere from 25-60 members. With a few notable exceptions, we do NOT have the huge bands like they do in FL and TX around here. I teach the largest band in Maine, (South Portland) and we top out at about 75 members.

There is great outreach to these bands, particularly from BAC and the Spartans, and most competitive bands around here are taught by drum corps folks. The Spartans do a great job of having a very professional recruiting booth set up at all the major band shows, and BAC's "Mass Bay Music Festivals" for high school jazz ensembles during the spring have become a huge draw.

I think the audience had a healthy mix (I actually had 6 of my band kids there). Conversely, when I go to a show like the early season Virgina (Arlington, maybe?) and see 800 high school kids and only a hundred or so "adults" in the audience, I get concerned about that.....

The East Coast Classic was the best attended show in New England, and a great time was had by all. As a matter of fact, all three Massachusetts shows (Quincy, Lynn, Lawrence) had a welcomed vibe of "Drum Corps is alive and well" to them.

There are many PIc's and slide shows, video on Face book and you tube (under boston crusaders). To get view of last years Boston 70th Birthday at Lawrence stadium, go to you tube and type in (Boston Crusader 70th East coast Classic slide show) there are over 200 pics there.. As craiga said Lawrence stadium is new along with there school and if we needed to host big events they are many world class collages BC, BU, Harvard, Holly Cross just to mention a few. As craiga said there are many drum corp fans in the northeast of all ages in fact the two most attended dci shows over the past 10+ years were in Boston and Madison. IMO Boston deserves a lot of credit keep drum corp alive and well in new-england. After all the kids that march are not only from Northeast but from around the world.