PhantomCav Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 In '73 (or '74 ... it's a long time ago! ;-), we were almost run out of town because a couple of our marching members had tennis shoes with Stars & Strips on it. It definitely was NOT a US flag. Never-the-less, we were the "godless hippie Communists from California"! Sounds about right. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Why does this practice still exist at all anymore? It doesn't make so much sense. It made sense back in the days where corps were sponsored by VFW posts and scout troops, performing at AFL/VFW events... but today... this makes as much sense these days as having a flag presentation at the ballet or a monster truck pull. There just doesn't seem to be the same context as before. At the very least, it should be more of a voluntary thing and not a big deal if an individual organization doesn't want to do it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 So basically your saying it would have been better for the OP to just call out those corps by name which he failed to mention instead? I agree G8 was a poor choice by the OP here, but which is really worse?...I'm just asking is all(no political agenda on my part)... I'm saying the OP wanted to use his post to attack the G8...it's blatantly obvious. I'm saying it's too bad he used the American flag for this purpose. That's what I'm basically saying. Is the use of the American flag for this purpose (attaching the G8) somewhat disrespectful itself? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Maybe it's just the Eagle Scout in me getting fired up, but trivializing Flag Code really just reflects poorly on the person complaining, not the people trying to get it done right and with proper respect and dignity. It was the Supreme Court that actually trivialized the flag code. Though it still remains in the US code for pretty much symbolic reasons, it is absolutely unenforceable. The code is essentially a set of guidelines for etiquette, spelling out things pretty much in the same way as you would which fork to use at a state dinner. I have relatives that I only know from their names carved into the side of memorials or dusty photo albums, as they each died in wars before I was born. I don't want to associate their sacrifice with the same symbol that is slapped on things like beef inspection or truck stop t-shirts. They are deserving of more than that. Let's let the flag go... let it be just a logo, rather than a symbol... and associate things that are much more unique, individual and personal to the sacrifices people have made in support of their friends and families. This is a concept that is not unique to and is not somehow greater to America, so why should this be connected with a specific symbol? This sort of realization hit me years ago when I lived near a monument of the Soviet sailors that lost their lives at sea. They weren't fighting for a specific ideology or to advance a specific cause... their sacrifice was in support of their friends, families, community. Over the years, the flags and symbols changed that were associated with the country, but this did not diminish their sacrifice. As such, remembrances were not confined to an image of a flag, symbols, holidays or phrases... but to monuments, photo albums and stories around the table. This, the idea of monument... the albums.... the stories... and not a cheapened piece of cloth (actually a derivative of the Grand Union flag [betsy Ross was far from genius] which was the flag used by ships of the British East India Company) should be how we remember and honor those who have served to protect their families, friends and communities. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Why does this practice still exist at all anymore? It doesn't make so much sense. It made sense back in the days where corps were sponsored by VFW posts and scout troops, performing at AFL/VFW events... but today... this makes as much sense these days as having a flag presentation at the ballet or a monster truck pull. There just doesn't seem to be the same context as before. At the very least, it should be more of a voluntary thing and not a big deal if an individual organization doesn't want to do it. I think that the issue is not one of compulsion or mandate, but rather if the choice is made to display the U.S. Flag it should be done with respect and honor to the code. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) ? This sort of realization hit me years ago when I lived near a monument of the Soviet sailors that lost their lives at sea. They weren't fighting for a specific ideology or to advance a specific cause... their sacrifice was in support of their friends, families, community. Over the years, the flags and symbols changed that were associated with the country, but this did not diminish their sacrifice. . While I understand the sentiment in that eventually all military personnel in the world that wear the uniform of their COUNTRY ultimately bond more with their fellow military servicemen around them that they live, sleep, eat, train, fight, and sometimes die alongside of...they all indeed were and are fighting to preserve or advance a specific cause. It is the cause of their COUNTRY . The military do not wear the uniform of their friends, family, local community. They wear the uniform of their Country, and ( in the case of US Military personnel ) they take an oath upon entry into military service to uphold the US Code of Military Justice and the US Constitution. In effect, upon entry into the US Military, their allegience is no longer to their family, nor to their friends, nor their home town. They serve now their COUNTRY, not their friends, family, etc... although it can be said that their service is a public one that ultimately serves to protect their family, friends, communities back home. I didn't mean to brow beat you on what otherwise is a good sentiment. I just wanted to clarify that when one enters military service they are indeed serving to advance the interests of their COUNTRY above all else. Edited August 21, 2011 by BRASSO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) It was the Supreme Court that actually trivialized the flag code. Though it still remains in the US code for pretty much symbolic reasons, it is absolutely unenforceable. The code is essentially a set of guidelines for etiquette, spelling out things pretty much in the same way as you would which fork to use at a state dinner. I have relatives that I only know from their names carved into the side of memorials or dusty photo albums, as they each died in wars before I was born. I don't want to associate their sacrifice with the same symbol that is slapped on things like beef inspection or truck stop t-shirts. They are deserving of more than that. Let's let the flag go... let it be just a logo, rather than a symbol... and associate things that are much more unique, individual and personal to the sacrifices people have made in support of their friends and families. This is a concept that is not unique to and is not somehow greater to America, so why should this be connected with a specific symbol? This sort of realization hit me years ago when I lived near a monument of the Soviet sailors that lost their lives at sea. They weren't fighting for a specific ideology or to advance a specific cause... their sacrifice was in support of their friends, families, community. Over the years, the flags and symbols changed that were associated with the country, but this did not diminish their sacrifice. As such, remembrances were not confined to an image of a flag, symbols, holidays or phrases... but to monuments, photo albums and stories around the table. This, the idea of monument... the albums.... the stories... and not a cheapened piece of cloth (actually a derivative of the Grand Union flag [betsy Ross was far from genius] which was the flag used by ships of the British East India Company) should be how we remember and honor those who have served to protect their families, friends and communities. Despite the appropriate honors due each individual who gave their life to, or for, their belief set or ideology, the Stars and Stripes is the symbol that we are all Americans, FIRST. E Pluribus Unum. I couldn't disagree more with your viewpoint of the importance of the American Flag in representing the ideology upon which this country has become the greatest in the history of the world. Perhaps your living situation more accurately represents your lack of loyalty to the principles of the country and the symbolism that the flag represents. Edited August 21, 2011 by garfield 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 It was the Supreme Court that actually trivialized the flag code. Though it still remains in the US code for pretty much symbolic reasons, it is absolutely unenforceable. The code is essentially a set of guidelines for etiquette, spelling out things pretty much in the same way as you would which fork to use at a state dinner. I have relatives that I only know from their names carved into the side of memorials or dusty photo albums, as they each died in wars before I was born. I don't want to associate their sacrifice with the same symbol that is slapped on things like beef inspection or truck stop t-shirts. They are deserving of more than that. Let's let the flag go... let it be just a logo, rather than a symbol... and associate things that are much more unique, individual and personal to the sacrifices people have made in support of their friends and families. This is a concept that is not unique to and is not somehow greater to America, so why should this be connected with a specific symbol? This sort of realization hit me years ago when I lived near a monument of the Soviet sailors that lost their lives at sea. They weren't fighting for a specific ideology or to advance a specific cause... their sacrifice was in support of their friends, families, community. Over the years, the flags and symbols changed that were associated with the country, but this did not diminish their sacrifice. As such, remembrances were not confined to an image of a flag, symbols, holidays or phrases... but to monuments, photo albums and stories around the table. This, the idea of monument... the albums.... the stories... and not a cheapened piece of cloth (actually a derivative of the Grand Union flag [betsy Ross was far from genius] which was the flag used by ships of the British East India Company) should be how we remember and honor those who have served to protect their families, friends and communities. Don't you realize, see bold above, it is this dip into nothing more than a logo which has caused many American people to see the U.S. Flag as nothing more than beef inspections and truck-stop t-shirts. If the U.S. Flag is a mere logo, then why are the Iranians burning it in complete hatred (it is just a logo right)? Why not apply that logo logic to the Nazi flag which is the complete antithesis of the U.S. Flag? (try marketing that logo idea to the Jewish community). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 A flag with a saber by it doesn't constitute a proper color guard. Drum corps haven't done this for years. If you aren't going to do it right, don't do it at all. I've not seen a proper color guard in DCI since I've started following the activity. Even BITD they weren't being executed properly. It could be that I coach a nationally-ranked JROTC program day in and day out but nothing in DCI even closely resembles what real color guard is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room_101 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) If you aren't going to do it right, don't do it at all. I just plain don't understand this mentality. I really believe that most Americans would NEVER notice if a flag doesn't have a spike or an eagle up top. If they did notice it, they probably wouldn't have known that it is somehow offensive, against the rules, or what-have-you (though I never saw any mention of this in the Code). Americans (again, my opinion) do have respect for the flag, and when they see it, all kinds of memories and emotions flow through their minds...with or without a spike on top, or someone guarding it for 15 minutes, etc. So you would REALLY rather there be no flag at all--to deprive everyone of the flag--than to have a flag without some little spike on top? I just don't get it. EDIT: I'm NOT trying to undermine anyone's feelings of pride in this country, and I am CERTAINLY not disrespecting those that have gone through our military over the last 200+ years. I just think the "all or nothing" mentality isn't worth it... ...it's the sacrifice of many for the benefit of only the very select few that want to see that spike on top (or whatever the error may be). Edited August 21, 2011 by Room_101 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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