Cadets 2

[sixtysomething]

My original post was about creating a new "masters" division of DCA. I wasn't suggesting that alumin corps start competing. There would still be room for the alumni corps movement, just as now. It would just provide a venue for those older people who still wanted to compete......and ONLY if DCA became too strenuous for those with older knees etc to handle the new, younger demands. Apologies if I didn't make that clear. This venue would be for those who couldn't handle Open Class/Class A DCA demands, but still had that competitive bug, not satiated by the almuni experience.

[LegalEagle50]

Perhaps you should consider joining an alumni corps and working for change from the inside, rather than simply sitting back here and telling them what they should do.

And as for alumni corps not being around for very long, I know of one that's in its seventeenth year - and it ain't the oldest one by any means.

One last thought... If alumni corps are so out of date, why are two major, long-standing shows seriously considering changing their format to all alumni corps?

Two things: some alumni corps are very resistant to change, even from within. Trust me. I know this from personal experience.

The other being an all alumni format doesn't necessarily work well. Barnum tried it. The audience shrunk and those locals who came out not knowing the format change were disappointed. Maybe not all but many were. I've mentioned that here before at the time it happened. They (locally) didn't advertise it as the Hawthorne Caballeros Alumni Corps but as the Hawthorne Caballeros. People there were disappointed. I heard the grumblings as people were walking to their cars that night. The show format changed back to competitive the next year.

That's not to say an all alumni show is bad. Please don't go misconstruing what I said. I'm saying it happened and didn't work out well in a particular location. Hopefully if someone changes their format of show in the future it works out better for them

[drumno5]

Your anti-Hopkins rhetoric is really just sad.

I agree. Elph's just making Hop a convenient whipping boy for her dismay that the activity has evolved beyond her frozen-in-time definition of what she'd like it to be.

The guy's got what, 10 rings? And there are hundreds (probably more like in the thousands by now) of Cadet alums who will testify to the incredible journey they experienced under his stewardship. He's doing something right.

Peace,

Fred O.

Edited September 11, 2011 by drumno5

[JimF-LowBari]

I'm not at all sure you're right about alumni corps competing for scores and a championship being a good thing. While some members, I'm sure, would enjoy competing, I don't believe the majority would want to take on the added pressures. Alumni corps are all about entertainment, not scores.

A small example... If alumni corps are scored on drill, what are we going to do with all those Amigos and Hoverounds that were on the field Sunday morning? Maybe we should just tell those guys to go home, they're washed up.

So once again... All these people that you're talking to all the time who want alumni corps to compete... Tell them to join one and work from the inside on making it so.

And by the way, I made a proposal to a DCA honcho suggesting that one aspect of alumni corps be allowed to compete against competing corps in only that one category. It goes without saying that I never even got the courtesy of a response.

Yeppers, and one question for those suggesting that Alumnis compete....

How many Alumnis do you KNOW about that actually have a field show. Yeah 9 or 10 show up at Rochester but some (about half?) do any type of field show.

Few other stray thoughts:

As far as growth with the Alumnis, we lost the Yankee-Rebels last year and have seen some others with smaller numbers than the past. Then they are some with an high average age that isn't going down. Let's not get too comfortible that the Alumnis are doing great.

Know of a Alumni-type few years back that asked the members for ideas to help the corps survive. Biggest response was to get away from the almost all parade music they had been doing as it was getting stale to the members. Now have a few college age and younger members but no idea if the change had anything to do with that. Yeah - change CAN work if the members realize why they need to change.

As for On-topic.... got nuttin'

Edited September 11, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[LegalEagle50]

If they want to survive they have to get new blood in. It's that simple. But they have to also accept that new blood means questioning the status quo. This may have been the way it was done for all eternity. I'm not saying keeping some traditions are bad. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is far different than the crowd throwing babies.

What I am saying is if somethings can change to encourage people to join or remain in any corps, as opposed to leaving, is that a positive end result?

[JimF-LowBari]

If they want to survive they have to get new blood in. It's that simple. But they have to also accept that new blood means questioning the status quo. This may have been the way it was done for all eternity. I'm not saying keeping some traditions are bad. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is far different than the crowd throwing babies.

What I am saying is if somethings can change to encourage people to join or remain in any corps, as opposed to leaving, is that a positive end result?

Agreed 100%... now that I read Lizs words it sounds like what the Jr and Sr corps have also had to deal with over the decades of adapting with whatever or die (OK tie in with C2 with that thought). Not just show/music styles but dealing with increased costs and having to pull members from a larger and larger area.

For the Alumnis, most started as ex-members only but almost all changed that as the members got older. Then it was "corps experience only" but maybe Cabs are the only ones who (can afford to) do that. So for those who don't realize it, the Alumni world hasn't stayed the same (that is NOT directed at Liz). Many (most?) now accept anyone who wants to play but NOW..... the question is how to pull in non-DC people with something those people may know nothing about. Especially if the Alumni type is playing stuff from long ago.... And IMO pulling in non-DC peopel is critical with the few corps still around to get DC experienced folks from.

Yes, some (repeat some) Alumnis are famous for certain music or styles but.... IMO, IMO, IMO.... they may need to add non-usual stuff to get the frsh meat... ooops, new bodies in.

Yeah I'm cranked... no rehearsal in half a year (went inactive due to personal side conflicts)... And Hanovers (where?) #1 goal is to continue year after year to provide music to the area. Thank goodness we're not know for any certain style or songs (except for "Never Walk"), gives us more freedom in what we play.

Edited September 11, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[Glen]

A couple of days ago, Red Corso told me that 2011 was the best DCA championship he's been involved in. For those that don't know him, Red is well into his 80s, and has been DCA's treasurer since 1974. Now, that's quite a statement coming from a guy with that depth of experience, who is STILL one of the driving forces behind what DCA is -TODAY- . A whole LOT changed in DCA this year. Some of it fans could see, and some they couldn't.

Even I look back on the things we did, and I am amazed that we pulled off what we did in one season. I am the youngest member of the DCA board, and am a career IT professional. We got the live web cast of prelims going in a WEEK. 7 days after we reached a contractual agreement, we had the thing beaming into people's houses. If someone had asked me to pull that off at work, I'd still be laughing.

This was also the very first DCA championship where the judges did not use cassette recorders. It was all digital. Within minutes of a corps finishing their show, corps' staff members were listening to the judges comments on their iPhones, Droids, Laptops, etc. For those that criticize our partnership with DCI this year, they loaned us the recorders that our judges used. I had to cook up a system to make it work, tested it in Scranton, and then just said "what the hell, let's go for it". Of course, I had a case of cassette tapes standing by just in case :) . The stuff on the jumbotron, all being directed by Mike Symonds and the little instant replay clips he showed as each corps left the field. The "Time of My Life" video played while the corps stood on retreat in the pouring rain and cheered wildly at it anyway ... Mike and his crew cooked that up the day before. A bunch of computers running in tabulation room - Mike and I and Steve Anderman in a chat room orchestrating everything... As soon as a prelim score was official, it was beamed out as a text message to every corps director. This enabled corps to do their prelim show and get outta Dodge and go about the rest of their plan for the day, instead of wasting time hanging around the stadium waiting to hear where they were going to end up... the web site being continually updated ... scores going out by Twitter ...

That's just some of the technology stuff that happened.

Other stuff in 2011 ... A new judging system weighted heavily toward entertainment... Dan Rippon completely rewrote the tabulation software that not only calculates the score, but generates the score sheet for the announcer and automatically lists who won what captions. We hammered the corps directors over and over in the off season telling them not to have their designers out-design the other designers, but design for the people in the stands. I'll stop here, the list is large.

Ok, I know this thread is about Cadets 2. If they compete in DCA, I believe it'll be the first time a corps enters our circuit with an upper age limit. Another first for DCA. We HAVE had corps with bottom age limits before. Some corps didn't allow women in their corps. DCA is still here. I would also like to remind everyone that DCA is an association of its members. No single individual in this organization is greater than any other. Our corps are weekend warriors, at each other's throats on the competition field every weekend in the summer, and in the off-season, are a tight collection of people who ALWAYS act in the best interest of the collective. No particular corps or person is going to revolutionize anything on his or her own. None of our member corps are going to roll over for any other one. They never have, and they never will. STOP THE CHICKEN LITTLE STUFF :)

I am looking forward to seeing Cadets 2 on the field. Its another drum corps for DCA, and more drum corps is never a bad thing. And now we're moving into a new city, in a new stadium with a press box as big as my house. So look at all the new stuff that happened in 2011. I think we can survive a new corps with an age cap, don't you?

And that's my annual diatribe on Drum Corps Planet.

Glen

[LegalEagle50]

Applauds

[JimF-LowBari]

Think we need more than an annual diatribe

Then again I'm a fellow IT'er but jealous I'm not in the areas you got into this year.

I'm just an Eunuch oops... Unix and database techie....

[Jeff Ream]

A couple of days ago, Red Corso told me that 2011 was the best DCA championship he's been involved in. For those that don't know him, Red is well into his 80s, and has been DCA's treasurer since 1974. Now, that's quite a statement coming from a guy with that depth of experience, who is STILL one of the driving forces behind what DCA is -TODAY- . A whole LOT changed in DCA this year. Some of it fans could see, and some they couldn't.

Even I look back on the things we did, and I am amazed that we pulled off what we did in one season. I am the youngest member of the DCA board, and am a career IT professional. We got the live web cast of prelims going in a WEEK. 7 days after we reached a contractual agreement, we had the thing beaming into people's houses. If someone had asked me to pull that off at work, I'd still be laughing.

This was also the very first DCA championship where the judges did not use cassette recorders. It was all digital. Within minutes of a corps finishing their show, corps' staff members were listening to the judges comments on their iPhones, Droids, Laptops, etc. For those that criticize our partnership with DCI this year, they loaned us the recorders that our judges used. I had to cook up a system to make it work, tested it in Scranton, and then just said "what the hell, let's go for it". Of course, I had a case of cassette tapes standing by just in case :) . The stuff on the jumbotron, all being directed by Mike Symonds and the little instant replay clips he showed as each corps left the field. The "Time of My Life" video played while the corps stood on retreat in the pouring rain and cheered wildly at it anyway ... Mike and his crew cooked that up the day before. A bunch of computers running in tabulation room - Mike and I and Steve Anderman in a chat room orchestrating everything... As soon as a prelim score was official, it was beamed out as a text message to every corps director. This enabled corps to do their prelim show and get outta Dodge and go about the rest of their plan for the day, instead of wasting time hanging around the stadium waiting to hear where they were going to end up... the web site being continually updated ... scores going out by Twitter ...

That's just some of the technology stuff that happened.

Other stuff in 2011 ... A new judging system weighted heavily toward entertainment... Dan Rippon completely rewrote the tabulation software that not only calculates the score, but generates the score sheet for the announcer and automatically lists who won what captions. We hammered the corps directors over and over in the off season telling them not to have their designers out-design the other designers, but design for the people in the stands. I'll stop here, the list is large.

Ok, I know this thread is about Cadets 2. If they compete in DCA, I believe it'll be the first time a corps enters our circuit with an upper age limit. Another first for DCA. We HAVE had corps with bottom age limits before. Some corps didn't allow women in their corps. DCA is still here. I would also like to remind everyone that DCA is an association of its members. No single individual in this organization is greater than any other. Our corps are weekend warriors, at each other's throats on the competition field every weekend in the summer, and in the off-season, are a tight collection of people who ALWAYS act in the best interest of the collective. No particular corps or person is going to revolutionize anything on his or her own. None of our member corps are going to roll over for any other one. They never have, and they never will. STOP THE CHICKEN LITTLE STUFF :)

I am looking forward to seeing Cadets 2 on the field. Its another drum corps for DCA, and more drum corps is never a bad thing. And now we're moving into a new city, in a new stadium with a press box as big as my house. So look at all the new stuff that happened in 2011. I think we can survive a new corps with an age cap, don't you?

And that's my annual diatribe on Drum Corps Planet.

Glen

:worthy: :worthy: