Teal Sound 2012

[jjeffeory]

One does not "march the corps". One marches "in or with the corps".

In the event you were not aware or forgot, the past director was Randy Blackburn.

In the event you were not aware or forgot, the new hire in question (his name is Joel Moody by the way) should not be allowed to work children.

Stand by choices? How about correct mistakes?

Come on empress, see through that veil of evil.

Well, I don't think anyone should be able to "work children". People should be able to work with children, however.

People should also be able to work with 18 year old young adults. I'm not sure that teachers should date their students, but I have seen this happen in the past.

Actually, the two I'm thinking about got married and have been married for over 18 years. At the time I was surprised, but she was 18 and he was 23. I would have probably been more upset had the teacher been a little older.

It looks like all sides are well represented here, so I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to point out that the student wasn't a "child", so this is a little bit different of an issue than many of you are jumping towards. It may be reprehensible, but it is a distinct and important case than many are inaccurately reacting to, which is totally understandable when feelings are involved.

Edited October 10, 2011 by jjeffeory

[corpsband]

one issue I see here is PR. face it, the stench is there, regardless of the facts of the individual's case. Now imagine you are knocking on doors looking for sponsors and people say "well you have that guy involved with your group......so no."

Yes people make mistakes. Many people learn and grow from them. Sadly many do not, and I don't know this person to say they did or didn't.

but perception is everything, and in an activity where now word gets around about everything...it can, will and in this case, has led to bad PR

not only is the stench there, it's not going away no matter the course of action the corps may take in the future.

if they terminate the association, they will still be tagged with "willing to hire a guy like that".

sad situation all around.

[perc2100]

It looks like all sides are well represented here, so I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to point out that the student wasn't a "child", so this is a little bit different of an issue than many of you are jumping towards. It may be reprehensible, but it is a distinct and important case than many are inaccurately reacting to, which is totally understandable when feelings are involved.

This is true, but the situation is still

1) EXTREMELY poor judgement on the teacher's part. The teacher admitted writing sexually suggestive text message to a student that he was teaching/supervising/evaluating. In ANY case, this is extremely poor judgement that could at the very least cast doubt at the legitimacy of the teacher doing their job, and could very easily lead to the stipulation that the teacher was indulging in their sexual attraction of a student to exact favor.

2) morally reprehensible, as you suggest. He was in a position of authority and took advantage of a student under his charge: a student who was 13 years his junior (not "just" five, though IMO that is just as wrong). Putting that type of pressure on a student is wrong, and the damage he might've done to her psyche may far outlast his career as an educator.

When you factor in this statement from the article,

"It would also end up to them considering the circumstances. He would say it's not a good idea. That they don't want to get each other in trouble so they can't tell anyone."

made by a student, the implication is that the teacher coerced the student into not telling anyone.

As others have said, I have zero problems with second chances. But giving someone who took advantage of his student a second change in a youth-oriented industry , even in a non-teaching roll, reeks of bad judgement on Teal Sound's part that is dumbfounding. The only thing I can think of is that Moody is friends with someone on Teal Sound's management who wanted to give a friend a second chance. This, in turn, strikes me as Teal Sound's management making poor decisions based not on what's best for the organization but what's best for friendships or something.

Either way, this is publicity Teal Sound shouldn't be seeking, and could've very easily avoided. If the corps management makes a decision this poor in one area, it's not out of line to stipulate they make poor decisions elsewhere...

Edited October 10, 2011 by perc2100

[Tom Brace]

Well, I don't think anyone should be able to "work children". People should be able to work with children, however.

People should also be able to work with 18 year old young adults. I'm not sure that teachers should date their students, but I have seen this happen in the past.

Actually, the two I'm thinking about got married and have been married for over 18 years. At the time I was surprised, but she was 18 and he was 23. I would have probably been more upset had the teacher been a little older.

It looks like all sides are well represented here, so I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to point out that the student wasn't a "child", so this is a little bit different of an issue than many of you are jumping towards. It may be reprehensible, but it is a distinct and important case than many are inaccurately reacting to, which is totally understandable when feelings are involved.

So, in this Teal situation, the student in question was 18 years old at the time of the texting? This is the first I am hearing of this. Regardless. the teacher/student relationship is one frought with potential power upheaval issues. This is why every college or university I have worked with have established (with help mostly from their insurance companies) personal harrassment policies and also changed the office doors to 1/2 glass, had open door meetings and have invited a colleague who is of the same gender to join any teacher/student meetings.

Just the threat of a he said/she said is enough to get the mark on a record and affects the ability to effectively teach. Best advice, don't put yourself in the situation.

[jjeffeory]

This is true, but the situation is still

1) EXTREMELY poor judgement on the teacher's part. The teacher admitted writing sexually suggestive text message to a student that he was teaching/supervising/evaluating. In ANY case, this is extremely poor judgement that could at the very least cast doubt at the legitimacy of the teacher doing their job, and could very easily lead to the stipulation that the teacher was indulging in their sexual attraction of a student to exact favor.

2) morally reprehensible, as you suggest. He was in a position of authority and took advantage of a student under his charge: a student who was 13 years his junior (not "just" five, though IMO that is just as wrong). Putting that type of pressure on a student is wrong, and the damage he might've done to her psyche may far outlast his career as an educator.

When you factor in this statement from the article, made by a student, the implication is that the teacher coerced the student into not telling anyone.

As others have said, I have zero problems with second chances. But giving someone who took advantage of his student a second change in a youth-oriented industry , even in a non-teaching roll, reeks of bad judgement on Teal Sound's part that is dumbfounding. The only thing I can think of is that Moody is friends with someone on Teal Sound's management who wanted to give a friend a second chance. This, in turn, strikes me as Teal Sound's management making poor decisions based not on what's best for the organization but what's best for friendships or something.

Either way, this is publicity Teal Sound shouldn't be seeking, and could've very easily avoided. If the corps management makes a decision this poor in one area, it's not out of line to stipulate they make poor decisions elsewhere...

I agree with you; this is publicity that Teal Sound shouldn't be seeking for sure!

Edited October 10, 2011 by jjeffeory

[jjeffeory]

So, in this Teal situation, the student in question was 18 years old at the time of the texting?

That's what I read. That totally changes the tone of these postings from really REALLY bad ( fire and brimstone bad) to something that is simply bad. I think it makes it a little worse that there was a significant age difference, but we've drawn the line at 18 here in the US. Other than that, I don't know the details and this is all simply gossip time...

This is the first I am hearing of this. Regardless. the teacher/student relationship is one frought with potential power upheaval issues. This is why every college or university I have worked with have established (with help mostly from their insurance companies) personal harrassment policies and also changed the office doors to 1/2 glass, had open door meetings and have invited a colleague who is of the same gender to join any teacher/student meetings.

Just the threat of a he said/she said is enough to get the mark on a record and affects the ability to effectively teach. Best advice, don't put yourself in the situation.

That's the bad part. It doesn't make professional sense to do this. It's interesting that this keeps happening over and over in every walk of life with all these people.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

This thread is full of enablers.

Corps management that says, "oh don't worries about it yo's, he's just doing truck driving and logistics...ignore the fact he'll see the members every day!"

Posters (many of whom are probably music educators, SCARY) that say, "everyone deserves a second chance and everyone makes mistakes... I don't see the problem with allowing this guy to establish contact and be around young people again!"

I pose these questions, yes, she was an adult... but only by a few months. Are you claiming that in his sexual power moves, he only waited until this girl turned 18? I imagine there was a long time building for this. If he had established these texting relationships with two girls, there were surely more. He did share texts with all of his section leaders, etc. Hell, I know of parents that would try to get a director fired just for the sharing of texts, let alone, sexual ones.

Jesus, people.

This man tried to establish a sexual relationship with a high school student, that was his student, and tried to get her to lie about it. This is not "well he chose the wrong toilet paper" business... this is the actions of a SEXUAL PREDATOR. You don't have to be having sex with someone underage to be a sexual predator. You can be a manipulator, misuse your power, break the oath of education, rape someone, etc.

[corps8294]

The way it appeared in the last thread about Teal, it seems like there are other not so cool matters going on there besides the individual in discussion.

Edited October 10, 2011 by shortn'sour

[jjeffeory]

This thread is full of enablers.

Corps management that says, "oh don't worries about it yo's, he's just doing truck driving and logistics...ignore the fact he'll see the members every day!"

Posters (many of whom are probably music educators, SCARY) that say, "everyone deserves a second chance and everyone makes mistakes... I don't see the problem with allowing this guy to establish contact and be around young people again!"

I pose these questions, yes, she was an adult... but only by a few months. Are you claiming that in his sexual power moves, he only waited until this girl turned 18? I imagine there was a long time building for this. If he had established these texting relationships with two girls, there were surely more. He did share texts with all of his section leaders, etc. Hell, I know of parents that would try to get a director fired just for the sharing of texts, let alone, sexual ones.

Jesus, people.

This man tried to establish a sexual relationship with a high school student, that was his student, and tried to get her to lie about it. This is not "well he chose the wrong toilet paper" business... this is the actions of a SEXUAL PREDATOR. You don't have to be having sex with someone underage to be a sexual predator. You can be a manipulator, misuse your power, break the oath of education, rape someone, etc.

Wow!

You know, you have some great points and are obviously very passionate about this topic. I also care about the children and do not want to see any harm come to them, or anyone.

I'm just not willing to go on a witch hunt and sensationalize this whole thing without having knowledge about what happened. It's coming across as fear mongering. This is a common theme in the world today, too, and is another problem with society It seems...

You've mentioned several things here that I have not read in any online article. Who knows what's REALLY going on or went on here? We must also be careful about ruining the life of this person. I subscribe to the Blackstone's formulation: "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer". What we have in this case is too much, "I don't know" for me. Yes, at its worst, what has been described by a few here is terribly bad.

Noone here is going to have the authority to really get to the truth or the facts, so all we have is gossip, libel, defamation, slander, and vilification. Hooray! Can we please talk about drum corps now?

Thanks!

P.S. I don't know any of the parties involved. I just HATE gossip that usually turns out to be grossly inaccurate in the end after all the damage has been done. If all of this is true, then I don't think Teal should have gone with this individual. I just don't know about trusting the data.

Edited October 10, 2011 by jjeffeory

[Tom Brace]

This thread is full of enablers.

Corps management that says, "oh don't worries about it yo's, he's just doing truck driving and logistics...ignore the fact he'll see the members every day!"

Posters (many of whom are probably music educators, SCARY) that say, "everyone deserves a second chance and everyone makes mistakes... I don't see the problem with allowing this guy to establish contact and be around young people again!"

I pose these questions, yes, she was an adult... but only by a few months. Are you claiming that in his sexual power moves, he only waited until this girl turned 18? I imagine there was a long time building for this. If he had established these texting relationships with two girls, there were surely more. He did share texts with all of his section leaders, etc. Hell, I know of parents that would try to get a director fired just for the sharing of texts, let alone, sexual ones.

Jesus, people.

This man tried to establish a sexual relationship with a high school student, that was his student, and tried to get her to lie about it. This is not "well he chose the wrong toilet paper" business... this is the actions of a SEXUAL PREDATOR. You don't have to be having sex with someone underage to be a sexual predator. You can be a manipulator, misuse your power, break the oath of education, rape someone, etc.

Spot on.