danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 your plan basically mirrors the G7 plan. the big names get everything, the little guys get next to nothing. You've said so yourself. And sorry, losing the OC corps would hurt the activity...because many kids get training in those corps that helps them be prepared when they go to a WC corps. Since you're all about "quality", losing those corps will hurt that. The top corps in the activity don't have too many kids that come from open class outside of their own feeder corps. Most kids going to these corps come from other world class corps. This is fact, based on their own data. As such, more lower performing open class corps will not improve the quality of world class corps. It is actually the quality of marching band and winter guard/percussion programs that have a greater impact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Something to think about... if all of the current open class corps went away, and there were only say 15 world class corps performing on the highest level.... the activity will still thrive. There will be no less fans (fans are attracted these days though their school programs, not through participation in corps), no less stability. I can't overstate just how dangerously naive your mindset is. So if performance level = attendance, and performance level is so much higher today than it was in, say, 1981....why is attendance lower today than it was in 1981? Sorry, but participation matters. Current and former drum corps marchers are the activity's biggest fan$. They make up a sizable percentage of the fan base....enough to cause attendance to correlate with the size of the participant base. Cut the number of participants in half, and you'll cut the fan base in half as well. But don't take my word for it....we've already done it. The number of corps participating in DCI Championships today (either total or just world-class) is half what it was in 1981....and so is finals attendance. But... if these top corps went under and it was only corps performing on the level of open class corps or the bottom tier of world class... the activity is done. Where to start? 1. Taking you literally....if only the bottom few WC corps were left, then the top 18-20 corps would all have folded. I think we'd all agree that the simultaneous loss of 18-20 corps from an activity of just over 40 would be severe. (Well, scratch that, as you've already indicated that as far as you're concerned, you don't care if 20 open-class corps fold tomorrow. Ergo, no one else should care.) 2. If instead of half the activity, we confine this hypothetical to "the top corps"....say, the self-proclaimed top corps (the G7)....the activity would continue on just fine without them. 3. Of course, your whole premise is a strawman. If, by some act of simultaneous mismanagement, a number of top corps folded all at once, most of the staff and membership talent from those corps would still be interested in DCI participation, and thus would simply move to other corps. Thus, the performance level of top DCI corps would be maintained. The talent that generates that performance level in DCI competition isn't going to vaporize the instant an individual corps folds. Priority needs to be placed on the top performing corps, as this is what keeps the activity going. All hail the top corps....the rich get richer....yes, you've said that already. Secondary emphasis should be to get corps in world class performing on a more equal level. Again, bar should be higher on all levels. By all means, closer competition would be a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The top corps in the activity don't have too many kids that come from open class outside of their own feeder corps. Most kids going to these corps come from other world class corps. This is fact, based on their own data. OK. But you want to get rid of some of those WC corps too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 OK. But you want to get rid of some of those WC corps too. Either you are not exactly understanding, or I am definitely not articulating my point well enough. I'll summarize... I think the reality of it is that DCI should FOCUS.... not really worry about nurturing or accommodating small corps (another organization may more effectively take up that charge), but focus on maximizing profit. In order to maximize profit, this will require that there is a minimum amount of corps to make the circuit interesting and sustainable. Making sure that there is adequate support for this minimum amount is really all they should be tasked with. 15 WC and 15 OC corps... performing on fairly equal level for their class is easier to support than a larger number of corps with greater range in performance level or several plateaus of a 3-4 corps. Again, the more I think about it... organizations other than DCI may be better suited for corps development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I can't overstate just how dangerously naive your mindset is. So if performance level = attendance, and performance level is so much higher today than it was in, say, 1981....why is attendance lower today than it was in 1981? Sorry, but participation matters. Current and former drum corps marchers are the activity's biggest fan$. They make up a sizable percentage of the fan base....enough to cause attendance to correlate with the size of the participant base. Cut the number of participants in half, and you'll cut the fan base in half as well. But don't take my word for it....we've already done it. The number of corps participating in DCI Championships today (either total or just world-class) is half what it was in 1981....and so is finals attendance. no... performance level + lineup + venue + schedule + marketing - weather = attendance Whatever happen in 1981 is completely irrelevant to the present. So many factors have changed. Where to start?1. Taking you literally....if only the bottom few WC corps were left, then the top 18-20 corps would all have folded. I think we'd all agree that the simultaneous loss of 18-20 corps from an activity of just over 40 would be severe. (Well, scratch that, as you've already indicated that as far as you're concerned, you don't care if 20 open-class corps fold tomorrow. Ergo, no one else should care.) 2. If instead of half the activity, we confine this hypothetical to "the top corps"....say, the self-proclaimed top corps (the G7)....the activity would continue on just fine without them. 3. Of course, your whole premise is a strawman. If, by some act of simultaneous mismanagement, a number of top corps folded all at once, most of the staff and membership talent from those corps would still be interested in DCI participation, and thus would simply move to other corps. Thus, the performance level of top DCI corps would be maintained. The talent that generates that performance level in DCI competition isn't going to vaporize the instant an individual corps folds. I'll get to the point... If the top 8 corps left DCI... DCI would cease to exist as a meaningful organization. Take the emotional aspects out of this... view objectively... this is fact. All hail the top corps....the rich get richer....yes, you've said that already. This point baffles me. There is no one getting rich doing drum corps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 In order to maximize profit, this will require that there is a minimum amount of corps to make the circuit interesting and sustainable. Now, here's something I can agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Now, here's something I can agree with. What we don't agree on is the number... I don't think it really needs to be much more than 15... if there is greater parity. That is quite enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 How exactly will it cause corps to fold? As I see it, it would strengthen the operations and improve sustainability. I'm not a fan of world class corps doing loads of local shows. Doesn't make financial sense. Shows need to be where the greatest potential for revenue is, not simply covering the country equally. There are places that have several large shows and could support even more with a different lineup. Something to think about... if all of the current open class corps went away, and there were only say 15 world class corps performing on the highest level.... the activity will still thrive. There will be no less fans (fans are attracted these days though their school programs, not through participation in corps), no less stability. But... if these top corps went under and it was only corps performing on the level of open class corps or the bottom tier of world class... the activity is done. Priority needs to be placed on the top performing corps, as this is what keeps the activity going. Secondary emphasis should be to get corps in world class performing on a more equal level. Again, bar should be higher on all levels. promoters will not want "subpar" lineups. Look at the OC tour...in the middle of nowhere. if people say "i want the big guns or no show"...where do those corps perform? Oh right they dont. and what happens to corps with nowhere to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The top corps in the activity don't have too many kids that come from open class outside of their own feeder corps. Most kids going to these corps come from other world class corps. This is fact, based on their own data. As such, more lower performing open class corps will not improve the quality of world class corps. It is actually the quality of marching band and winter guard/percussion programs that have a greater impact. and you have facts to back that up? Seems DCI said otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Either you are not exactly understanding, or I am definitely not articulating my point well enough. I'll summarize... I think the reality of it is that DCI should FOCUS.... not really worry about nurturing or accommodating small corps (another organization may more effectively take up that charge), but focus on maximizing profit. In order to maximize profit, this will require that there is a minimum amount of corps to make the circuit interesting and sustainable. Making sure that there is adequate support for this minimum amount is really all they should be tasked with. 15 WC and 15 OC corps... performing on fairly equal level for their class is easier to support than a larger number of corps with greater range in performance level or several plateaus of a 3-4 corps. Again, the more I think about it... organizations other than DCI may be better suited for corps development. like who? DCM? Gone. GSC? Gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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