Rifuarian Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Darn You Daniel, Don't you know that Drum Corps is a wonderful, mythical world of happiness and unicorns. What works outside of drum corps will not/can not work inside drum corps. It would kill all the unicorns. I love laughing at this forum! On the left: Big Bad Bari. On the right: danielray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't see drum corps as a good social program and don't think people should pretend it is. How can it be considered to be a social program for youth development when only kids that already have an unusually high level of talent and that can drop thousands of dollars a year can participate. Not only is that untrue....you are the only one saying that drum corps should operate exclusively that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Not only is that untrue....you are the only one saying that drum corps should operate exclusively that way. Let's take last year's champion as an example... $ 175 - Registration Fee $ 115 - Audition Camp Fee $ 100 - Second Camp Fee $ 100 - Third Camp Fee $ 100 - Uniform Fee $ 599 - Spring Training Fee $2,699 - Summer Tuition Fee ----------------------------------------- $3,888 - Total Add to that additional transport to camps, plus meals, etc. and you're looking at an additional $1,200 at least... putting the total at around $5,000 per season. What else could a kid do for that amount of money? A whole year of study at London School of Economics ($5,310) Buy a Hans Hoyer Heritage 6801 Bb/F Double French Horn Detachable Bell ($5,038) Study at the Juilliard Summer Percussion Seminar ($1,415) AND buy an Adams 4.3 octave marimba ($2,499) and so on... This is an insane amount of money for kids... and is the main barrier to entry for participation in the activity. The activity is currently not a youth development program... but is an activity for kids who are already very well developed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 It isn't mythical... it is fact. It is very easily quantified... just look at attendance figures and merchandising sales for show with more top corps vs. shows with less. I don't know why you seem to insist that shows have the same draw regardless of lineup. They simply do not. Alright, since it is so easy....a DCI-sanctioned show was held on June 26 in Old Bridge, NJ, hosted by YEA!. Competing corps were the Madison Scouts, Boston Crusaders, Spirit of Atlanta, Crossmen, and Jersey Surf in world-class; Raiders were the lone contestant in open-class; also, an exhibition field performance was given by the Bridgemen alumni corps. How many of the dollars this show made were drawn by each entity? Madison Scouts Boston Crusaders Spirit of Atlanta Crossmen Jersey Surf Raiders Bridgemen YEA! DCI Again, if you look at the figures it is pretty clear. Want to know what started the whole G7/8 thing in the first place? An analysis of the figures. It is plain as day if you see them... DCI's own numbers (I know this, because I was the one that actually put them together). You don't work for DCI. I'm not really going to argue this point any more, as it is quite silly to keep this going and your defense of this is illogical. The merchandising gap between 1st place and even 6th place is considerable... between 10th place on down, were talking multiples. That is a pretty #### good indicator of individual draw. If we're talking shopping malls, maybe. But people don't go to drum corps shows just to buy T-shirts....and conversely, which T-shirts they buy says little about why they came to the show in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Let's take last year's champion as an example... Do I even need to point out that the DCI champion might not be a representative, typical example? $ 175 - Registration Fee $ 115 - Audition Camp Fee $ 100 - Second Camp Fee $ 100 - Third Camp Fee $ 100 - Uniform Fee $ 599 - Spring Training Fee $2,699 - Summer Tuition Fee ----------------------------------------- $3,888 - Total Add to that additional transport to camps, plus meals, etc. and you're looking at an additional $1,200 at least... putting the total at around $5,000 per season. Not if the person lives within land-travel distance of NJ....or if attending college, chooses a college within land-travel distance of NJ. What else could a kid do for that amount of money?A whole year of study at London School of Economics ($5,310) Buy a Hans Hoyer Heritage 6801 Bb/F Double French Horn Detachable Bell ($5,038) Study at the Juilliard Summer Percussion Seminar ($1,415) AND buy an Adams 4.3 octave marimba ($2,499) and so on... You forgot to tally up the alternative (what three months of rent and food would cost). The difference in cost between drum corps vs. couch potato is a much smaller amount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Alright, since it is so easy....a DCI-sanctioned show was held on June 26 in Old Bridge, NJ, hosted by YEA!. Competing corps were the Madison Scouts, Boston Crusaders, Spirit of Atlanta, Crossmen, and Jersey Surf in world-class; Raiders were the lone contestant in open-class; also, an exhibition field performance was given by the Bridgemen alumni corps. How many of the dollars this show made were drawn by each entity? Madison Scouts Boston Crusaders Spirit of Atlanta Crossmen Jersey Surf Raiders Bridgemen YEA! DCI Ask DCI or YEA. If they want you to know... I'm sure they'll let you know. You don't work for DCI. Correct. But I did work with a couple of corps directors who coordinated with DCI to collect all of this data, which I compiled for them in a format that included show attendance and revenue figures going all the way back to the mid 90's, combined with things like individual corps merchandising sales for each show, there was also things like weather data and fuel prices for the show zip code included for the day of each show and individual corps placement at that show (and year prior) for weighting. There were other things in the model, including average home price, income and population data for 60 mile radius. You have a gut... or an assumption... but I could tell you what shirt sizes you should make sure you have in stock for certain shows based on the average BMI of population for zip codes within a 60 mile radius of the show site. If we're talking shopping malls, maybe. But people don't go to drum corps shows just to buy T-shirts....and conversely, which T-shirts they buy says little about why they came to the show in the first place. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Do I even need to point out that the DCI champion might not be a representative, typical example? The champion SHOULD be a representative, typical example. There is absolutely no reason for most corps not to be on the same level. Not if the person lives within land-travel distance of NJ....or if attending college, chooses a college within land-travel distance of NJ. Not a large % of that corps. You forgot to tally up the alternative (what three months of rent and food would cost). The difference in cost between drum corps vs. couch potato is a much smaller amount. Don't see how it is relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 BTW - for those out there that are a bit tech savvy and like playing with data... data.gov (raw catalog) datamasher.org Google Public Data Explorer There are loads more, but these are a good starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't see drum corps as a good social program and don't think people should pretend it is. How can it be considered to be a social program for youth development when only kids that already have an unusually high level of talent and that can drop thousands of dollars a year can participate. At the same time, there are much more effective social and developmental programs for youth out there than drum corps. I think it is just time to stop pretending that it is something it isn't and maximize what it actually is. A major goal for increasing revenues and returning more money to corps would be to lower the cost of participation (free is a good goal). If I ran the zoo, increases in revenues paid to corps would come on the condition that they lower participation fees. Again, I dig drum corps and think many more kids should have a chance to participate... but we need to stop kidding ourselves that it is anything close to a charity or social program. And "obligation to both guide and morally support the Raiders involvement within DCI"???? I don't see it. See Bold: If they are just pretending to be charitable youth organizations (your words) then DCI and the various corps directors are actually cheating the 501c3 system; and therefore they Must, and I mean MUST drop their 501c3 status immediately and move into the world of for-profit. Otherwise, our tax money and our tax deductible donations are NOT going to help the youth (any youth who wants to be involved), but instead actually going to help a Major League system consisting of just the best of the best. But, alas, let's see if the G7 are willing to remove themselves from suckling on that 501c3 pretense and really move into playing with the Major League for-profit big boys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Then they should get better. Seriously, I don't get why there should be a unique accommodation for lower performing corps. It is an unsustainable approach. They'll never get better with your plan, because you'll relegate them off to a lower class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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