Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't see drum corps as a good social program and don't think people should pretend it is. How can it be considered to be a social program for youth development when only kids that already have an unusually high level of talent and that can drop thousands of dollars a year can participate. At the same time, there are much more effective social and developmental programs for youth out there than drum corps. I think it is just time to stop pretending that it is something it isn't and maximize what it actually is. A major goal for increasing revenues and returning more money to corps would be to lower the cost of participation (free is a good goal). If I ran the zoo, increases in revenues paid to corps would come on the condition that they lower participation fees. Again, I dig drum corps and think many more kids should have a chance to participate... but we need to stop kidding ourselves that it is anything close to a charity or social program. And "obligation to both guide and morally support the Raiders involvement within DCI"???? I don't see it. except your plans only want so many corps......so more youth wont have the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Let's take last year's champion as an example... $ 175 - Registration Fee $ 115 - Audition Camp Fee $ 100 - Second Camp Fee $ 100 - Third Camp Fee $ 100 - Uniform Fee $ 599 - Spring Training Fee $2,699 - Summer Tuition Fee ----------------------------------------- $3,888 - Total Add to that additional transport to camps, plus meals, etc. and you're looking at an additional $1,200 at least... putting the total at around $5,000 per season. What else could a kid do for that amount of money? A whole year of study at London School of Economics ($5,310) Buy a Hans Hoyer Heritage 6801 Bb/F Double French Horn Detachable Bell ($5,038) Study at the Juilliard Summer Percussion Seminar ($1,415) AND buy an Adams 4.3 octave marimba ($2,499) and so on... This is an insane amount of money for kids... and is the main barrier to entry for participation in the activity. The activity is currently not a youth development program... but is an activity for kids who are already very well developed. andyour plan wants to be sure no one has that chance to grow and develop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ask DCI or YEA. If they want you to know... I'm sure they'll let you know. Correct. But I did work with a couple of corps directors who coordinated with DCI to collect all of this data, which I compiled for them in a format that included show attendance and revenue figures going all the way back to the mid 90's, combined with things like individual corps merchandising sales for each show, there was also things like weather data and fuel prices for the show zip code included for the day of each show and individual corps placement at that show (and year prior) for weighting. There were other things in the model, including average home price, income and population data for 60 mile radius. You have a gut... or an assumption... but I could tell you what shirt sizes you should make sure you have in stock for certain shows based on the average BMI of population for zip codes within a 60 mile radius of the show site. See above. ah so it comes out. You helped put together the G7 plan. stats can be skewed however you want them to be skewed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) See Bold: If they are just pretending to be charitable youth organizations (your words) then DCI and the various corps directors are actually cheating the 501c3 system; and therefore they Must, and I mean MUST drop their 501c3 status immediately and move into the world of for-profit. Otherwise, our tax money and our tax deductible donations are NOT going to help the youth (any youth who wants to be involved), but instead actually going to help a Major League system consisting of just the best of the best. But, alas, let's see if the G7 are willing to remove themselves from suckling on that 501c3 pretense and really move into playing with the Major League for-profit big boys. "501c3" and "charity" are not interchangeable terms. Charity is only one of the purposes that can earn an organization an exemption under code 501c3. The complete list of exemptions are "charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals." I think we can squeeze drum corps in there somewhere, even in its modern form. Don't agree with danielray on everything, but he's right on the money here. And he's only agreeing with what many on this forum have been saying for years, which is that junior corps has become an elite activity geared mostly towards musically talented, well-to-do kids rather than the old "take kids off the street and teach 'em to play" MO of the old local and regional corps. Which is unequivocally true. But rather than doing the impossible and trying return to the old way of doing things, he's urging drum corps to embrace its new identity and move forward. Seems sensible to me. The real question is what "moving forward" should entail. I for one don't believe it should entail cutting off the lower-placing corps. The big boys already get the lion's share of benefits from DCI, as they should. The pittance handed out to the OC and lower WC corps is well worth spending. Edited December 5, 2011 by Rifuarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 They'll never get better with your plan, because you'll relegate them off to a lower class. Actually, the priority would be to improve them by concentrating focus.. 15 WC, 15 OC (age out of OC at 19). Focus would be on improving the levels of all corp to be on par with top in each division. Corps could start in another circuit and move into DCI OC if they meet minimum level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 except your plans only want so many corps......so more youth wont have the chance. Many marching bands and winter guards perform on a higher level and provide a better quality of experience than some drum corps currently competing in DCI. Raising the bar will cause some of these corps to either fold or step up their game. If they are not able to perform on the level of top marching bands in the country (who draw kids from only ONE SCHOOL)... there is not much lost in them folding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Actually, the priority would be to improve them by concentrating focus.. 15 WC, 15 OC (age out of OC at 19). Focus would be on improving the levels of all corp to be on par with top in each division. Corps could start in another circuit and move into DCI OC if they meet minimum level. Please explain: why the age-out of OC at 19? My cynical size says because those kids will be forced to try out for WC, and over 19 fits their demo better. I see some logic in this, but why retire a kid who can't make WC when he now has 2 or 3 years left to march? If all levels of corps are on par with the top corps, then competition is effectively removed and the activity becomes a specific entertainment activity. Is this also part of your vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ah so it comes out. You helped put together the G7 plan. stats can be skewed however you want them to be skewed too. I just simply organized data they already had... no way to possibly skew it. Data is data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Many marching bands and winter guards perform on a higher level and provide a better quality of experience than some drum corps currently competing in DCI. Raising the bar will cause some of these corps to either fold or step up their game. If they are not able to perform on the level of top marching bands in the country (who draw kids from only ONE SCHOOL)... there is not much lost in them folding. Can you build a corps today from indoor guard and winter percussion? I thought we also had horns on the field in this hobby. Who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 I just simply organized data they already had... no way to possibly skew it. Data is data. And did I catch that the Vaticinate study was contradictory with that data regarding the percentage of G7 corps' membership comes from OC? Can you share the actual stat? Also, Persona showed that corps pilfer another 30% of their membership from other top corps. Is that also refuted among the G7 corps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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