seen-it-all Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Yes, but then you constantly compare DCI to dissimilar situations. So far, DCI has been a third party to all these crises. The offenders have all been corps staff. The primary responsibility - or just the ability - to suspend/investigate/fire them belongs to their respective employers, the corps. Along with that, of course, the employer will most likely be informed of the accusation before a third party like DCI. Obviously, third parties cannot "get ahead of the story" as well as those directly involved. If/when a DCI employee is ever accused of similar wrongdoings, then maybe you can compare apples to apples. This! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicManNJ Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 On 8/25/2018 at 3:41 PM, garfield said: So you know there's support (my qualifier would be "significant") for sweeping change in the governance model that operated DCI. Could you explain what you mean by this? I have yet to see any evidence that there is significant support for sweeping change as you state. I hope you are right but you must have information others here do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicManNJ Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 hours ago, garfield said: Throw them all under the bus as guilty before even having their day in the court of public opinion? That may FEEL like a good thing to do... How's about DCI just simply comes out and says "Drum corps is full of sex addicts and, when we find them, we will eliminate them immediately". Would that suffice, or are you looking for specific blood to be let? Under your premise, when all the rats are caught in the trap, how would one know that DCI got ALL of them? IMO, your solution is not workable. Not suggesting people be thrown under the bus the way you put it. How about this, corps that have suspended staff during this season let people know why. Then how about corps that know they have had issues in the past come forward with the issue (or issues) and tell everyone what they have done to make sure similar situations do not happen in the future. How about if any of these issues were known to the DCI board and discussed that this be brought forward with the plans of how these issues will be handled in the future (ok they did part of this in May). DCI is just another microcosm of our society. There are issues in DCI just like society. No one expects purity. The issue is how do corps handle issues and how does DCI handle issues. And to the degree there were problems in the past... instead of leaving them unaddressed. Now, as the latest Cadet2 example shows... even with all the background checks in the world there will be people that slip through the cracks. No one expects them to be able to cover every situation. How the respond to and handle a situation is the measure. Yea/Cadets addressed the latest issue swiftly using the new policies/procedures they have in place. I am not convinced DCI is handling issues they are supposed to be responsible for in the same manner. Not saying this is perfect... but I believe it is better than what I see as the current course. I could be wrong. Time will certainly tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, MusicManNJ said: Could you explain what you mean by this? I have yet to see any evidence that there is significant support for sweeping change as you state. I hope you are right but you must have information others here do not. Evidence... Hmmm... No, I don't have a signed piece of paper... PM'd in confidence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, MusicManNJ said: Not suggesting people be thrown under the bus the way you put it. How about this, corps that have suspended staff during this season let people know why. Then how about corps that know they have had issues in the past come forward with the issue (or issues) and tell everyone what they have done to make sure similar situations do not happen in the future. How about if any of these issues were known to the DCI board and discussed that this be brought forward with the plans of how these issues will be handled in the future (ok they did part of this in May). DCI is just another microcosm of our society. There are issues in DCI just like society. No one expects purity. The issue is how do corps handle issues and how does DCI handle issues. And to the degree there were problems in the past... instead of leaving them unaddressed. Now, as the latest Cadet2 example shows... even with all the background checks in the world there will be people that slip through the cracks. No one expects them to be able to cover every situation. How the respond to and handle a situation is the measure. Yea/Cadets addressed the latest issue swiftly using the new policies/procedures they have in place. I am not convinced DCI is handling issues they are supposed to be responsible for in the same manner. Not saying this is perfect... but I believe it is better than what I see as the current course. I could be wrong. Time will certainly tell. DCI most certainly does have a robust, monitored, and enforced policy regarding harassment and abuse. It applies to everyone in the DCI corporate offices. Your points about reporting of past "issues" are valid in your viewpoint, but not everyone shares your viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, MusicManNJ said: Not suggesting people be thrown under the bus the way you put it. How about this, corps that have suspended staff during this season let people know why. Then how about corps that know they have had issues in the past come forward with the issue (or issues) and tell everyone what they have done to make sure similar situations do not happen in the future. How about if any of these issues were known to the DCI board and discussed that this be brought forward with the plans of how these issues will be handled in the future (ok they did part of this in May). DCI is just another microcosm of our society. There are issues in DCI just like society. No one expects purity. The issue is how do corps handle issues and how does DCI handle issues. And to the degree there were problems in the past... instead of leaving them unaddressed. Now, as the latest Cadet2 example shows... even with all the background checks in the world there will be people that slip through the cracks. No one expects them to be able to cover every situation. How the respond to and handle a situation is the measure. Yea/Cadets addressed the latest issue swiftly using the new policies/procedures they have in place. I am not convinced DCI is handling issues they are supposed to be responsible for in the same manner. Not saying this is perfect... but I believe it is better than what I see as the current course. I could be wrong. Time will certainly tell. While far from a dci apologist, I’m not sure you’re even giving DCI half a chance. We get it: you want dan out. Most likely benefits you or someone close to you if it happens. this new process isn’t even 5 months old. No one said it’d be perfect Edited August 29, 2018 by Jeff Ream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicManNJ Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: While far from a dci apologist, I’m not sure you’re even giving DCA half a chance. We get it: you want dan out. Most likely benefits you or someone close to you if it happens. this new process isn’t even 5 months old. No one said it’d be perfect I believe you mean DCI. I have no skin in this game re: Dan contrary to what you have stated. I have made my point that I believe this whole situation has not been handled well by DCI at all. The buck stops with Dan. To be clear, the activity will need to purge itself of many others who have contributed to the current situation. This whole thing will get worse before it gets any better. I will say it again, sunshine is the best medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 13 hours ago, MusicManNJ said: Not suggesting people be thrown under the bus the way you put it. How about this, corps that have suspended staff during this season let people know why. Yes, how about that? I think you have a good point there. If the drum corps community is to prevent past offenders from being hired by other unsuspecting corps, there needs to be a way of sharing information on such people. With that in mind, though, the example you continue to hold up as the role model (YEA! and Cramer) fails to meet that objective. YEA! never told us what Cramer ever did wrong. If not for the reporting of Jaccii Farris, we still might not know. Any reactions or suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicManNJ Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 minute ago, cixelsyd said: Yes, how about that? I think you have a good point there. If the drum corps community is to prevent past offenders from being hired by other unsuspecting corps, there needs to be a way of sharing information on such people. With that in mind, though, the example you continue to hold up as the role model (YEA! and Cramer) fails to meet that objective. YEA! never told us what Cramer ever did wrong. If not for the reporting of Jaccii Farris, we still might not know. Any reactions or suggestions? YEA/C2 did not know anything about Cramer UNTIL it was reported as part of the AG report. As they state in their release, within 90 minutes of the issue they suspended him. IN three days, following their procedures, they fired him. They then informed the members and the community. As for Jaccii, YEA TOLD the reporter about the issue. She did not uncover it. See... transparency. YEA informed folks as soon as they were aware and could verify everything. YEA took it to the reporter. So in essence the role model does meet the objective. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Considering when it was created... I wonder if this thread wins the "longest-running" award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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