partial list of DCI Casualties

[Stu]

That was a very nice, considerate reply. For which I thank you. You are quite right about my antipathy toward DCI as an entity. My (I wouldn't call it hate) adverse suspicions of DCIs motives and practices, some of which might be viewed as violations of federal RICO statutes, (racketeering), goes back to the UOJC and the "The Combine". Nothing that has transpired since 1971 has lessened those fears and distrust one iota.There are millions of dollars involved now. And money corrupts.

I had a long and enjoyable career in drum corps, beginning at age eight. After 1960 I marched Senior Corps with the Lt Norman Prince Princemen until 1966 and the beginnings of DCA. Subsequently, I instructed, and judged, and supported corps in the Boston area. They continue to have my support. After a long absence I Marched and played in alumni corps from 1998 through 2009.

I still have great admiration for the talent and effort of the kids in today's corps. It's the motives, morals, and tactics of the administrators of DCI that I question.The kids are still doing the best they can, just as they always have. They are just fine.

I think I might well find some peace following SDCA, and DCNA. Unfortunately I know nothing about them, not even what the acronyms stand for. Please advise, as I'd like to find out about them. Thanks again for calling them to my attention.

Small Drum Corps Association: http://cdraferrara.tripod.com/ they are currently accommodating small, local community, anyone can participate type corps. They mainly perform in basketball arenas but want to develop an outdoor situation once they have enough interest,

Drum Corps North America: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Drum-Corps-North-America/204693552886405 is a struggling up-start who want to also accommodate small, local community, anyone can participate type corps.

You may, or may not, want to know this but the DCI website has actually helped promote DCNA; here are links to articles which were published by DCI http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=343def4e-15da-4fd2-a380-7f59a96a2fb7 and http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=578a0c0d-165e-44e1-aa84-dbec35516860

[HNCadet]

After spending a few days reading and trying to understand several posters comments/positions, I gave up. So I broke out some fresh French Bread, some wonderful cheese, a great bottle of Malbec and set about to applying some 'verbage' to an expanded Sermon(loosely defined) using bits and pieces that I've collected over the years from many private conversations. The following is going to be highly offensive to most below the age of 60 and would likely get me banned from all of todays "social sites" so before you hit the unlike button, first find and listen to several performances by George Carlin on Advertising, Consumerism & Children. This should prepare you for the following...............and then continue reading, keeping in mind the delivery if not the words............................

The largest and most often heard phrase of the past 40 years has been that DC is a "Music education" platform that has been raised to new heights by all the wonderful changes in staffing and 'performance' .......... This is nothing more than a Shibboleth that would make even Herr Goebbels proud.. .........drum corp from the beginning was never more about music education than the Boy Scouts were a Forestry Ranger program. This entire "idea" was placed out in the world some 40 years ago and constantly replayed by a group of self-serving opportunists that hijacked nothing more than a formal "Rules Congress". They then set out to juggle requirements re-package and 'MARKET' DC to a whole new group of (PAYING)"CONSUMERS"...............rich, yuppie parents who would be willing to happily pay the now "OFFICIALLY" ordained "Music & Arts Education Professionals" first hundreds, then thousands of dollars so little suzy and johnny can go off to their "IVY LEAGUE SUMMER BAND CAMPS" , allowing their mothers and paters to have a quiet peaceful summer to themselves, wife swapping, smoking dope and trying to relive their youth while getting out from their normal parental duties................and guess what?............... the ######## succeeded! ........... and in the process, took down an institution that for 50 years gave Local children a FREE(or nearly so)opportunity to develop personal life skills taught by (church)volunteers, parents and the odd music enthusiast, NOT a professional, but a person who wanted to 'SHARE' their love of a medium to those who could learn "THROUGH" the medium, not necessarily about the medium. I didn't join The Cadets initially at age 12 because of a unrealized love of music and neither did ANY of my friends............we joined a LOCAL Youth program that offered us some local social stature, the ability to grow together, learning a WORK ETHIC, HONESTY, LOYALTY, Appreciation of our COUNTRY, it's FLAG and it's BRAVE and SELFLESS defenders! Drum Corps was nothing more than a CIVICS class unfolding in real time............and unfortunately, in the mid to late, '60's, a point in time when our government let us(citizens) down through a policy of avarice and narrow minded international aggression(and is doing so again!), we turned against all those who taught us those life lessons and opened a door of opportunity for those who valued GREED over SERVICE.

I never much cared for the DCi concept, even the original proposals that I heard from THE Donald seemed a little too centralized(which is NEVER a good thing). However I really developed a mistrust when several years post organization, I was introduced to the ring leaders at a hotel bar after finals..................did you ever have the uncanny desire to want to wash your hands constantly for 7 days after you shook someone's hand? After that, I limited my dci socializing to staying at the end of the bar with some very old and connected friends whom would meet once a year to discuss their stock options or investment deals. Never being a dedicated drinker, I always heard more than I should have and perhaps occasionally, I may have read more into the conversation than I should have, nonetheless, the pattern emerged and the die was cast. Like a junkie, ALWAYS needing more, the established few set-up greater "requirements", national touring, centralized judging, TV shows to better "MARKET" their product and in turn, demanded and received greater COMPENSATION for their now FULL-TIME Job efforts(how Capitalist of them!) at which point those who did the yeoman's work of actually managing the sub-servient organizations noted they they too should share in the FINANCIAL REWARDS and proceeded down the path of enlightened MARKETING.........."We have a product that you "NEED", so we NEED to charge more & more to help "COMPENSATE" our efforts........................and the structure that evolved was one that was very familiar to those who created it.......... ADMINISTRATORS at the TOP received TOP COMPENSATION, teachers at the perfunctory level received subsistence payments, techs received valuable work experience and volunteers received personal fulfillment.

PEOPLE, THIS ISN"T THE DEFINITION OF AN NON-PROFIT EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM,

......IT'S A FOR PERSONAL PROFIT BUSINESS!!!!!..............

now was any of this illegal?...........no, not the issue nor point of this, although I'm always suspicious of groups that don't publish their financial results and that can be openly audited...............look no further than the United Way for history on that. They may have cleaned up their act on this point recently, but the history ain't pretty.

Were any of the prior or current participants hurt by this? Well, only financially and even then it was more the parents than the participant.............and likely, most gained some level of personal gratification.

So, who was harmed?..........................only an unknowable number of disenfranchised youth over the past 40 years who had their LOCAL and free(relatively) youth program snatched away from them by group of greedy purported education professionals.

And a little off subject: As for whether dci is an elementary school or university?, It doesn't matter as its being marketed only for PERSONAL PROFIT and not as a SERVICE to the community. and that sir, is the difference between current and old drum corps.

The above Post is entirely for entertainment purposes only(yours & mine) and just my OPINION(albeit informed) and does not constitute an indictment of the music profession, nor the teaching profession in general. You may or may not have your own opinion which as we all know is not the only item we all have in common. My personal Thanks to George Carlin for the inspiration and insight he brought into this world.

OH and Stu...Thanks for the links to SDCA & DCNA, something I've heard about and will look into........................why don't they have there own discussion forums here? this facebook thing is soooooo 27 seconds ago..............heh.

reallyoldfart.....I need to buy you a drink!

[reallyoldfrt]

After spending a few days reading and trying to understand several posters comments/positions, I gave up. So I broke out some fresh French Bread, some wonderful cheese, a great bottle of Malbec and set about to applying some 'verbage' to an expanded Sermon(loosely defined) using bits and pieces that I've collected over the years from many private conversations. The following is going to be highly offensive to most below the age of 60 and would likely get me banned from all of todays "social sites" so before you hit the unlike button, first find and listen to several performances by George Carlin on Advertising, Consumerism & Children. This should prepare you for the following...............and then continue reading, keeping in mind the delivery if not the words............................

The largest and most often heard phrase of the past 40 years has been that DC is a "Music education" platform that has been raised to new heights by all the wonderful changes in staffing and 'performance' .......... This is nothing more than a Shibboleth that would make even Herr Goebbels proud.. .........drum corp from the beginning was never more about music education than the Boy Scouts were a Forestry Ranger program. This entire "idea" was placed out in the world some 40 years ago and constantly replayed by a group of self-serving opportunists that hijacked nothing more than a formal "Rules Congress". They then set out to juggle requirements re-package and 'MARKET' DC to a whole new group of (PAYING)"CONSUMERS"...............rich, yuppie parents who would be willing to happily pay the now "OFFICIALLY" ordained "Music & Arts Education Professionals" first hundreds, then thousands of dollars so little suzy and johnny can go off to their "IVY LEAGUE SUMMER BAND CAMPS" , allowing their mothers and paters to have a quiet peaceful summer to themselves, wife swapping, smoking dope and trying to relive their youth while getting out from their normal parental duties................and guess what?............... the ######## succeeded! ........... and in the process, took down an institution that for 50 years gave Local children a FREE(or nearly so)opportunity to develop personal life skills taught by (church)volunteers, parents and the odd music enthusiast, NOT a professional, but a person who wanted to 'SHARE' their love of a medium to those who could learn "THROUGH" the medium, not necessarily about the medium. I didn't join The Cadets initially at age 12 because of a unrealized love of music and neither did ANY of my friends............we joined a LOCAL Youth program that offered us some local social stature, the ability to grow together, learning a WORK ETHIC, HONESTY, LOYALTY, Appreciation of our COUNTRY, it's FLAG and it's BRAVE and SELFLESS defenders! Drum Corps was nothing more than a CIVICS class unfolding in real time............and unfortunately, in the mid to late, '60's, a point in time when our government let us(citizens) down through a policy of avarice and narrow minded international aggression(and is doing so again!), we turned against all those who taught us those life lessons and opened a door of opportunity for those who valued GREED over SERVICE.

I never much cared for the DCi concept, even the original proposals that I heard from THE Donald seemed a little too centralized(which is NEVER a good thing). However I really developed a mistrust when several years post organization, I was introduced to the ring leaders at a hotel bar after finals..................did you ever have the uncanny desire to want to wash your hands constantly for 7 days after you shook someone's hand? After that, I limited my dci socializing to staying at the end of the bar with some very old and connected friends whom would meet once a year to discuss their stock options or investment deals. Never being a dedicated drinker, I always heard more than I should have and perhaps occasionally, I may have read more into the conversation than I should have, nonetheless, the pattern emerged and the die was cast. Like a junkie, ALWAYS needing more, the established few set-up greater "requirements", national touring, centralized judging, TV shows to better "MARKET" their product and in turn, demanded and received greater COMPENSATION for their now FULL-TIME Job efforts(how Capitalist of them!) at which point those who did the yeoman's work of actually managing the sub-servient organizations noted they they too should share in the FINANCIAL REWARDS and proceeded down the path of enlightened MARKETING.........."We have a product that you "NEED", so we NEED to charge more & more to help "COMPENSATE" our efforts........................and the structure that evolved was one that was very familiar to those who created it.......... ADMINISTRATORS at the TOP received TOP COMPENSATION, teachers at the perfunctory level received subsistence payments, techs received valuable work experience and volunteers received personal fulfillment.

PEOPLE, THIS ISN"T THE DEFINITION OF AN NON-PROFIT EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM,

......IT'S A FOR PERSONAL PROFIT BUSINESS!!!!!..............

now was any of this illegal?...........no, not the issue nor point of this, although I'm always suspicious of groups that don't publish their financial results and that can be openly audited...............look no further than the United Way for history on that. They may have cleaned up their act on this point recently, but the history ain't pretty.

Were any of the prior or current participants hurt by this? Well, only financially and even then it was more the parents than the participant.............and likely, most gained some level of personal gratification.

So, who was harmed?..........................only an unknowable number of disenfranchised youth over the past 40 years who had their LOCAL and free(relatively) youth program snatched away from them by group of greedy purported education professionals.

And a little off subject: As for whether dci is an elementary school or university?, It doesn't matter as its being marketed only for PERSONAL PROFIT and not as a SERVICE to the community. and that sir, is the difference between current and old drum corps.

The above Post is entirely for entertainment purposes only(yours & mine) and just my OPINION(albeit informed) and does not constitute an indictment of the music profession, nor the teaching profession in general. You may or may not have your own opinion which as we all know is not the only item we all have in common. My personal Thanks to George Carlin for the inspiration and insight he brought into this world.

OH and Stu...Thanks for the links to SDCA & DCNA, something I've heard about and will look into........................why don't they have there own discussion forums here? this facebook thing is soooooo 27 seconds ago..............heh.

reallyoldfart.....I need to buy you a drink!

HNCadet, I would be proud to accept a libation from one of the few who've figured out the Great DCI Scam, and are couargeous enough to call BS on this pathetic "music education" theme they keep harping on. No one's getting rich, here. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) "It's for the children." And I'd be proud to stand you for one as well. Well said, sir. A bulls eye!

[MikeD]

I didn't join The Cadets initially at age 12 because of a unrealized love of music and neither did ANY of my friends............we joined a LOCAL Youth program that offered us some local social stature, the ability to grow together, learning a WORK ETHIC, HONESTY, LOYALTY, Appreciation of our COUNTRY, it's FLAG and it's BRAVE and SELFLESS defenders! Drum Corps was nothing more than a CIVICS class unfolding in real time............and unfortunately, in the mid to late, '60's, a point in time when our government let us(citizens) down through a policy of avarice and narrow minded international aggression(and is doing so again!), we turned against all those who taught us those life lessons and opened a door of opportunity for those who valued GREED over SERVICE.

I joined the Cadets in 1970 because I wanted to march with the best performing corps I could. It was between Garfield and BS...I eventually picked Garfield, as I had a bunch of friends who had gone there in 1969. As a kid, the things you noted were hardly in my mind at all...I wanted to be with the best. Those great aspects you noted came along with the experience, absolutely, but as a 17-year-old...they were not in my mind, for sure.

Were any of the prior or current participants hurt by this? Well, only financially and even then it was more the parents than the participant.............and likely, most gained some level of personal gratification.

So, who was harmed?..........................only an unknowable number of disenfranchised youth over the past 40 years who had their LOCAL and free(relatively) youth program snatched away from them by group of greedy purported education professionals.

And a little off subject: As for whether dci is an elementary school or university?, It doesn't matter as its being marketed only for PERSONAL PROFIT and not as a SERVICE to the community. and that sir, is the difference between current and old drum corps.

If the many corps that have folded over time had run themselves in a more businesslike manner, more may have survived to this day.

Local drum corps dying out had very little, if anything, to do with DCI. Service to the community? The town of Garfield used to kick us off the HS field and provided almost zero support. We ended up moving drill rehearsals to the parking lot of the Bergen County Jail in Hackensack just to get a place we could rehearse without being pestered by the town.

HS bands have taken the place of the old local style corps, and they do a much better job at it in serving local kids and the township events. There are over 25,000 HS bands...4,000 compete...I'll take those numbers any day over the small number of corps that existed in the day....and the kids still have great corps to join at varying levels if they so choose.

[Stu]

HDCadet and Reallyoldfart: While it may be cathartic for both of you to drink some libations and bash on DCI, it is what it is and there is no way to change history (1972 - present). Again, that is why I suggest both of you supporting SDCA and DCNA. However, there is a "productive" thing you can do concerning the future of DCI if you really care about the youth involved: You could help keep the G7 from raising their heads again in their desire to kick out lower corps from DCI by supporting corps like Legends, Genesis, Spirit of Newark, etc... just a thought.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Stu

[HNCadet]

OK Mike, I understand your points.....let me just add the following and if need be lets take the rest off-line so we don't confuse and bore too many people around here:

When I first joined, I had pointed out to me a notice Chief had pasted on the wall of the Uniform Room(his Office) in the basement of the old American Legion Hall(our practice hall through 1965). On it were HIS expectations of each Cadet's responsibilities ........... there were quite a few more than WORK ETHIC, HONESTY, LOYALTY...etc (wish I could remember the whole thing or still had my copy)................. those were the basis of what was expected of each Cadet and I was required to sign one understanding and agreeing to them(sort of a Code of Conduct, like the West Point Rules)........if you didn't, you didn't march........simple.....don't know why it wasn't carried forward by subsequent administrations, in retrospect, it should have been, it gave us all a common standing.

The reasons why Corps failed are too numerous to simplify by stating it was business operations, but when there are immense new operating conditions like those outlined by DCi of it's members(extended expensive tours)...............it imposed huge financial hardships on those units that were the regional second tier corps(and some top corps like BS & BR).....that's typically where the next level of contenders would come from to challenge the big boys. In the old formats they would have started to establish some dominance over the regional leaders THEN see National competition when it arrived at their doorstep via the "touring" National Contests" In any case I hope you see my reasoning, the second tier corps were unable to mature and compete against their regional competitors without exposing themselves to huge touring expenses, which I can't say benefited ANYONE, but dci. This doomed them financially if they did and if they didn't their membership then moved on up to one of the touring corps, or at least those members that could PAY & pass the "auditions' proving they were worthy of DCi status. That was quite the culling and the start of the "forgotten ones".

Not a new story on local support, the Church withdrew support when the majority of members were no longer church members(although there were other issues, see "The Bishop's Wife"), the support from the City of Garfield stopped because of the failure of the Cadet administrations to play the political game within the City. When Chief was Director, he was both a citizen and a Bergen County Sheriff who KNEW what wheels to grease and when to call in favors.............later administrations lost all bargaining power when they failed to maintain those relationships(part of The Plebe issue)............I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did with as few members from Garfield marching, but I'll bet part of it was the Garfield Band Director in the mid-late '70's...........a fellow who was a Plebe for a short time in '62(and a close friend in HS, I'm proud to say) .....he completely turned around that lousy music program and had that Band switch to a DC style and then compete...........when he left to go to somewhere up around Sparta, I'll bet the last vestiges of local support died in Garfield. In political circles(especially Garfield) you've GOT to maintain a close circle of support. I imagine County and City of Bergenfield support died when political situations changed there too. Simply put, if you want any support from the local governments you #### well better give THEM what they need politically(votes)..........You know, I wonder what the driving factor was for the implementation of Cadets2? could it be that there was some local questioning about how many local youths were being assisted through the YEA program? Don't know, but it fits the pattern and IF they pull it off, then they deserve KUDOS for it!

Here is where our biggest divide is and where I place my line in the sand..........you and literally all music educators I've spoken too SEEM TO THINK THAT MUSIC STOPS AT THEIR BANDROOM DOOR.............well, I don't believe that.............I'd estimate that easily 50% of the Cadets I marched with had NO contact with their local High School or College Band...........they simply were involved because of all the "OTHER" things that " were hardly in your mind at all".................THOSE are the disenfranchised youth I'm speaking about, those kids who really don't care about a music education beyond the competition environment. Please re-read my posting, because the KEY PHRASE is all about: "those who could learn "THROUGH" the medium, not necessarily about the medium." The music was simply a "TOOL" to aid in instruction of the far more critical life lessons.

STU: Appreciate the thought and will look into the SDCA, but I don't believe what I wrote should be defined as "Bashing" as this IS the "Historical Forum" and therefore should be the place to openly discuss "alternate or suppressed views of the History of Drum Corp", certainly we don't agree on the concept currently in place, but as Santayana once mused, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." and yes, he said it before Churchill did! .....Oh and since it seems your concerned about the G7 pushing out the "second tier corps"?.................do you mean much like DCi did when it started the touring "push" ?..........just an observation.

....and if your really into "conspiracy theories" what if this Cadets2 experiment was just a way to maintain a presence in DC while the G7 go off and do their thing(which may not be DC at all?) leaving all other units to move to DCA or some other alternate lower cost model? Trying NOT to be a "Doomsdayer" but the economic models going forward 5-7 yrs doesn't look all that great and maintaining multi-million dollar budgets will put a strain on all marginal economic systems. I have to assume those top 7 units now have Boards of Directors with far more business acumen than the rest and are making moves to insure "Their economic survival" and #### the rest of 'ya.................................Just stirrin' the pot 'ya understand.

[Stu]

STU: Appreciate the thought and will look into the SDCA, but I don't believe what I wrote should be defined as "Bashing" as this IS the "Historical Forum" and therefore should be the place to openly discuss "alternate or suppressed views of the History of Drum Corp", certainly we don't agree on the concept currently in place, but as Santayana once mused, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." and yes, he said it before Churchill did! .....Oh and since it seems your concerned about the G7 pushing out the "second tier corps"?.................do you mean much like DCi did when it started the touring "push" ?..........just an observation.

....and if your really into "conspiracy theories" what if this Cadets2 experiment was just a way to maintain a presence in DC while the G7 go off and do their thing(which may not be DC at all?) leaving all other units to move to DCA or some other alternate lower cost model? Trying NOT to be a "Doomsdayer" but the economic models going forward 5-7 yrs doesn't look all that great and maintaining multi-million dollar budgets will put a strain on all marginal economic systems. I have to assume those top 7 units now have Boards of Directors with far more business acumen than the rest and are making moves to insure "Their economic survival" and #### the rest of 'ya.................................Just stirrin' the pot 'ya understand.

I relish open discussion, and appreciate engaging in conversations containing various viewpoints on historical matters (even those that bash DCI, ha, ha ). Anyway,...

a) The difference between the Combine of 1972 and the recent G7 proposal was this: The Combine left the governing body (as in the VFW) inviting others to join them and neither forced corps to go with them nor attempted to destroy any corps which stayed with the VFW; whereas the G7 attempted to radically change the governing body (DCI) into their own entity and flat wanted to kick out those whom disagreed with them.

b) After the Combine split in 1972 the corps who chose to not follow the Combine had a chance to continue and prosper under the older VFW model but they did not do so; subsequently the VFW concept waned and the DCI concept prospered. After the recent G7 proposal, the non-G7 corps stepped up for the underdogs in DCI and kept the Open Class intact. I consider both of those as historical actions which were, and are, just the way of life.

c) This I have also accepted: The drum corps activity today has morphed into various realms (similar to the baseball analogy I previously mentioned). I support the SDCA, and the upstart DCNA, as a means for those who are interested in the community aspects, the place where instruments are in the hands of kids to get them off the streets (which is akin to the pre-DCI era); I support DCA as a means for youth and adults to interact within performance outlets, and as a means to do this on a part-time scale to accommodate busy schedules; I support the DCI Open Class as an outlet for those youth who have some talent and have a desire to gain valuable experience preparing them for higher quality; and I support the DCI World Class as an outlet for the best of the best youth to get together and perform at the highest quality level possible with other high-talented youth. And to me it would be a grave dis-service to the best youth not to offer them this high-caliber DCI World Class opportunity.

d) While I agree that eliminating the regional aspects of DCI in the 1990's was a negative, corps in the DCI World Class today are not 'forced' to National Tour the whole season. The Academy, for instance, took about two weeks off mid-summer to save money and stay in the black. They chose being financially responsible over winning a ring!!! And none of the Open Class are required to do any National Touring at all.

e) And you will really not like me with this last statement: The way to take care of the youth flying on an aircraft is for the aircraft company to concern themselves solely on the aircraft, not on the fun party the youth are having while in the air. This is not mean, cruel, or callous but necessary. All non-profits, whether drum corps or any other entity, are corporations (businesses), need to be ran as businesses, and those who survive are the ones who treat the organization as a business and keep it safely flying while letting the instructional staff deal with the party.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Stu

[MikeD]

OK Mike, I understand your points.....let me just add the following and if need be lets take the rest off-line so we don't confuse and bore too many people around here:

No prob...I think we can keep this here as long as it doesn't get TOO "inbred"...

The reasons why Corps failed are too numerous to simplify by stating it was business operations, but when there are immense new operating conditions like those outlined by DCi of it's members(extended expensive tours)...............it imposed huge financial hardships on those units that were the regional second tier corps(and some top corps like BS & BR).....that's typically where the next level of contenders would come from to challenge the big boys. In the old formats they would have started to establish some dominance over the regional leaders THEN see National competition when it arrived at their doorstep via the "touring" National Contests" In any case I hope you see my reasoning, the second tier corps were unable to mature and compete against their regional competitors without exposing themselves to huge touring expenses, which I can't say benefited ANYONE, but dci. This doomed them financially if they did and if they didn't their membership then moved on up to one of the touring corps, or at least those members that could PAY & pass the "auditions' proving they were worthy of DCi status. That was quite the culling and the start of the "forgotten ones".

Corps did not have to go on season-long tours...no one held a gun to their collective heads, esp back when DCI first started. Corps could and did remain fairly local for most of their season. BS did not die out because of DCI, IMO. Their last great year was 70, and they had a very quick decline after that, as did many urban-based corps. Actually, most of the corps from the Newark area were gone before DCI came along. Just take a look at corpsreps.com to check that out. Prior to BS, both St Lucy's and St Martin's (a GSC corps) were gone after the 69 season.

I have read about Blue Rock trying to make a west coast tour in 74, and the financial disaster it turned into. People blame DCI for forcing them to travel out west...IMO it was their own admin for agreeing to such a trip with a very sadly diminished corps. Even in MY day, they had the absolute WORST busses of any corps I ever saw. They were competitively not the Blue Rock of earlier days, either...22nd at DCI prelims in 73, for instance. On their tour in July of 74 they were scoring in the 50's (even a 51 at one show) when SCV was in the high 70's.

Their were still regional tours through the 70's ("UOEC" comes to mind in the east), and many top corps still attended shows like the World Open, CYO Nats and the US Open. Corps admins in the 70's wanted to become competitive with the "big boys", but they did not have the resources to do so for any extended period of time, and it was not due to DCI forcing them to tour, IMO. Note the "shooting stars" that rose up into the open class arena and then quickly died out all too soon. The Royal Brigade, a merger of the Meadowlarks and CW Townsmen, springs to mind.

Here is where our biggest divide is and where I place my line in the sand..........you and literally all music educators I've spoken too SEEM TO THINK THAT MUSIC STOPS AT THEIR BANDROOM DOOR.............well, I don't believe that.............I'd estimate that easily 50% of the Cadets I marched with had NO contact with their local High School or College Band...........they simply were involved because of all the "OTHER" things that " were hardly in your mind at all".................THOSE are the disenfranchised youth I'm speaking about, those kids who really don't care about a music education beyond the competition environment. Please re-read my posting, because the KEY PHRASE is all about: "those who could learn "THROUGH" the medium, not necessarily about the medium." The music was simply a "TOOL" to aid in instruction of the far more critical life lessons.

Nope...never thought that music ed stopped at the bandroom door. I played horn in 72 partially because I wanted to learn to play a brass instrument, and Don Angelica was a great teacher. Yes, many kids had no band connection back in the day...those days are long gone. The rise of the competitive MB world (due in large part to drum corps people) has provided a much larger base of kids having the same competitive experience I had in my local corps days, only there are thousands of them today, and they play a LOT better than most of the little corps.

Corps have to attract members who know about them...that is the scholastic music world. Kids in both band and corps receive those life skills you talk about.

[JimF-LowBari]

No prob...I think we can keep this here as long as it doesn't get TOO "inbred"...

Now you're talking about my sister in laws neighbors....

Seriously, I've enjoyed reading the inside scoop on Plebes and Holy Name/not Holy Name as this is the history that gets lost over the decades. If it isn't discussed no one will over know and always wonder (see below).

I have read about Blue Rock trying to make a west coast tour in 74, and the financial disaster it turned into. People blame DCI for forcing them to travel out west...IMO it was their own admin for agreeing to such a trip with a very sadly diminished corps. Even in MY day, they had the absolute WORST busses of any corps I ever saw. They were competitively not the Blue Rock of earlier days, either...22nd at DCI prelims in 73, for instance. On their tour in July of 74 they were scoring in the 50's (even a 51 at one show) when SCV was in the high 70's.

And 75 Blue Rock and Blessed Sac had Senior corps that only lasted one year. Picked up some of how they came about in the DC History book but sure there was a lot going on behind the scenes. BS wasn't that bad and actually gained associate membership in DCA (13th). Blue Rock wasn't that great and was one of the first corps my group ever beat as we were rebuilding. 1976 season came around and after a while (pre Internet days) everyone realized they no longer existed and no one knew why.

[BariBrian]

"Nope...never thought that music ed stopped at the bandroom door. I played horn in 72 partially because I wanted to learn to play a brass instrument, and Don Angelica was a great teacher. Yes, many kids had no band connection back in the day...those days are long gone. The rise of the competitive MB world (due in large part to drum corps people) has provided a much larger base of kids having the same competitive experience I had in my local corps days, only there are thousands of them today, and they play a LOT better than most of the little corps.

Corps have to attract members who know about them...that is the scholastic music world. Kids in both band and corps receive those life skills you talk about."

Mike tell me how do kids join these bands if they want to play but the schools that they go to do not offer the competitive band experience, or in my son's case no band at all now that the schools have deemed fit to cut the program?

Edited March 1, 2012 by BariBrian