partial list of DCI Casualties

[KeithHall]

Ahhh the excuse, "Kids have alot of choices!" These include.....sitting on computers after school and playing games, XBox or PS3, Talking and texting on the cell phone. Sitting around and watching TV. Doing chores at home? NO! Partying more than kids in the 70's? YES

Every kid in drum corps today will be so much better than the kid who sits at home on his butt to play World of Warcraft.

local interest may have continued for corps IF local interest was there...its not..... kids are very different now and have alot of choices...we didnt back in the day...look at most DCI corps today..they have no choice but to go out of their areas to get members.....look at Boston and this is only 1 example...many of their kids are from florida.....very different times now.

[Tim K]

I agree, too many kids are too inactive, but to be fair, those who are involve tend to be very motivated. Also there are a variety of activities available today that offer great opportunities: travelling sports teams (far more extensive today) and a wider selection of sports, better quality theater programs (I’m almost embarrassed to think about what we thought were good theater productions for kids back in the day, and we complain about some small corps from years ago playing out of tune) and hands on activities offered through schools and community centers such as robotics. However, what we don’t often take into account is that kids who get involved in these activities are generally more engaged in life in general and fare better academically. I know people in education who claim the hardest awards to give are the scholar/athlete, scholar/musician etc. l kind of awards, not because there are so few, but there are so many candidates.

Now I’m not sure more drum corps would get kids off the couch or away from computer games, and I’d even be willing to bet that some of our finest marching today may be gaming while travelling between shows, but your point is well taken. Of course there’s no way of knowing if drum corps could be a solution if more local corps are not available.

Ahhh the excuse, "Kids have alot of choices!" These include.....sitting on computers after school and playing games, XBox or PS3, Talking and texting on the cell phone. Sitting around and watching TV. Doing chores at home? NO! Partying more than kids in the 70's? YES

Every kid in drum corps today will be so much better than the kid who sits at home on his butt to play World of Warcraft.

[reallyoldfrt]

Wow. You mean to tell me the corps should do EXACTLY what most corps do when they cut people? Remarkable! Corps do EXACTLY this. Want to know how I know? Because that's what happened with me. Are you seriously that out of touch that you're suggesting this like corps don't already do it?!

I'm suggesting that there are no longer enough corps in existence to make it a practical or effective tactic. I'm also suggesting that a completely untrained kid is rejected out of hand because the highly professional staff of "music educators" in today's very part time, non-local drum corps has no time to actually educate a noobie. They regard that as someone else's job. Mr drillman states that DCI is University level. That's true. Maybe in some places the school systems have great music programs. Those places are usually not in urban areas where music programs have been eliminated, or severely curtailed. I'm not aware of any way to get into a university is you've never gone to elementary school or high school.

BITD all corps trained their own kids, either with the big corps, or through a feeder corps. ALL corps had a few "subs" who didn't make the line, but filled in in case a starter was sick, of injured. I'm sure the big boys have a few subs travelling with them for emergencies.

But. Here's the secret. BITD, when there were over a thousand corps, very few of the kids involved had any interest in having a serious musical career. They did it for fun. They rehearsed twice a week during the fall, winter and spring. It was a year-round, local activity. It cost them very little money, only their time. They did it to hang around with the other kids in the neighborhood. The corps provided the instruments, and the basic instruction. The kids with more talent learned to play well. The kids with less talent played the best they could. That was why, even in the big corps, the third soprano and third baritone parts in all corps were pretty basic. Can you imagine some of today's brass arrangers actually having to tailor their charts to fit the ability of their players? Of course they do have to make those choices in many of the "lesser", or Open Class corps. But not for the top units.

According to Mr drillman, and other posters, those top units are the only ones who should be allowed to exist. Well; guess what? You elitists are about to get exactly what you wished for. I hope you like it.

[KeithHall]

Your last statement....

Those are the ones that DO exist! Sadly corps have left us and I guess we have to accept that fact. We can only reminisce. The casualty list is there beause corps couldn't evolve, plain and simple. Drum corps changed and what was will never be. We need to be supportive of the young people that make up the corps that we do have out there.

If I were a young person and heard the complaining going on I would hate "your BITD!" I wouldn't give two kraps about what you all did back in the day. If I listened to recordings or videos of "The golden era" I would tell you how god awful it was...out of tune brass playing, drum lines that play only rudiments and marching that was uncreative.

Support what we have left!

I'm suggesting that there are no longer enough corps in existence to make it a practical or effective tactic. I'm also suggesting that a completely untrained kid is rejected out of hand because the highly professional staff of "music educators" in today's very part time, non-local drum corps has no time to actually educate a noobie. They regard that as someone else's job. Mr drillman states that DCI is University level. That's true. Maybe in some places the school systems have great music programs. Those places are usually not in urban areas where music programs have been eliminated, or severely curtailed. I'm not aware of any way to get into a university is you've never gone to elementary school or high school.

BITD all corps trained their own kids, either with the big corps, or through a feeder corps. ALL corps had a few "subs" who didn't make the line, but filled in in case a starter was sick, of injured. I'm sure the big boys have a few subs travelling with them for emergencies.

But. Here's the secret. BITD, when there were over a thousand corps, very few of the kids involved had any interest in having a serious musical career. They did it for fun. They rehearsed twice a week during the fall, winter and spring. It was a year-round, local activity. It cost them very little money, only their time. They did it to hang around with the other kids in the neighborhood. The corps provided the instruments, and the basic instruction. The kids with more talent learned to play well. The kids with less talent played the best they could. That was why, even in the big corps, the third soprano and third baritone parts in all corps were pretty basic. Can you imagine some of today's brass arrangers actually having to tailor their charts to fit the ability of their players? Of course they do have to make those choices in many of the "lesser", or Open Class corps. But not for the top units.

According to Mr drillman, and other posters, those top units are the only ones who should be allowed to exist. Well; guess what? You elitists are about to get exactly what you wished for. I hope you like it.

[BariBrian]

Your last statement....

Those are the ones that DO exist! Sadly corps have left us and I guess we have to accept that fact. We can only reminisce. The casualty list is there beause corps couldn't evolve, plain and simple. Drum corps changed and what was will never be. We need to be supportive of the young people that make up the corps that we do have out there.

If I were a young person and heard the complaining going on I would hate "your BITD!" I wouldn't give two kraps about what you all did back in the day. If I listened to recordings or videos of "The golden era" I would tell you how god awful it was...out of tune brass playing, drum lines that play only rudiments and marching that was uncreative.

Support what we have left!

But Kieth,,this is the Historical forum, isn't it? I mean you have to go into this forum with your eyes open and expect a little BITD, without getting your feelings hurt right?

I do support the corps of today, very much, and I do think they are superior to what we had as far as talent. What I do not support is the arrogance and acid tones I hear when they talk about our times. Not from all of them of course, just a few that feel that they owe nothing to anyone.

I have a great deal of respect for the kids today in corps and what they must do to accomplish the shows that they put out, but, my respect gets tainted when I feel spit on, by the very people that I am supporting.

Your point is well taken and I respect it,,but, if they are coming to this forum, they are bound to hear old farts tell how things were better BITD

Edited February 27, 2012 by BariBrian

[Stu]

I'm suggesting that there are no longer enough corps in existence to make it a practical or effective tactic. I'm also suggesting that a completely untrained kid is rejected out of hand because the highly professional staff of "music educators" in today's very part time, non-local drum corps has no time to actually educate a noobie. They regard that as someone else's job. Mr drillman states that DCI is University level. That's true. Maybe in some places the school systems have great music programs. Those places are usually not in urban areas where music programs have been eliminated, or severely curtailed. I'm not aware of any way to get into a university is you've never gone to elementary school or high school.

BITD all corps trained their own kids, either with the big corps, or through a feeder corps. ALL corps had a few "subs" who didn't make the line, but filled in in case a starter was sick, of injured. I'm sure the big boys have a few subs travelling with them for emergencies.

But. Here's the secret. BITD, when there were over a thousand corps, very few of the kids involved had any interest in having a serious musical career. They did it for fun. They rehearsed twice a week during the fall, winter and spring. It was a year-round, local activity. It cost them very little money, only their time. They did it to hang around with the other kids in the neighborhood. The corps provided the instruments, and the basic instruction. The kids with more talent learned to play well. The kids with less talent played the best they could. That was why, even in the big corps, the third soprano and third baritone parts in all corps were pretty basic. Can you imagine some of today's brass arrangers actually having to tailor their charts to fit the ability of their players? Of course they do have to make those choices in many of the "lesser", or Open Class corps. But not for the top units.

According to Mr drillman, and other posters, those top units are the only ones who should be allowed to exist. Well; guess what? You elitists are about to get exactly what you wished for. I hope you like it.

> I'm suggesting that there are no longer enough corps in existence to make it a practical or effective tactic.

This contention would have some validity 'if' DCI corps such as Jersey Surf, Pioneer,... Racine Scouts, Blue Saints, Spirit of Newark, Impulse, City Sound were turning away youth. But the reality is that there are more corps in existence within DCI than youth who want to march with these corps.

> I'm also suggesting that a completely untrained kid is rejected out of hand ...

Not true; if a self-trained youth with no formal musical education showed up who could play a trumpet in tune in the high register and demonstrated a command of time, any corps would seriously look at placing that student in a position and a staff member would work with that youth on the finer aspects of the written notes.

>... in today's very part time, non-local drum corps has no time to actually educate a noobie.

Wrong!!!! SDCA and the corps involved with SDCA are doing exactly these things. They are local organizations dedicated to doing thins the way they were done BITD.

> Mr drillman states that DCI is University level. I'm not aware of any way to get into a university is you've never gone to elementary school or high school.

Here is a way: Home school and GED.

> BITD all corps trained their own kids, either with the big corps, or through a feeder corps.

Wrong: I marched BITD of early DCI with a top corps (one with many rings over the years) and I lived eleven hours away from the rehearsal site. I had to audition (which was a difficult process), and I had to beat out many others for that position through that audition.

> BITD, when there were over a thousand corps, very few of the kids involved had any interest in having a serious musical career. They did it for fun.

And today, when there are still hundreds of corps (DCI, DCA, SDCA) the majority of youth are still not music majors and the majority of youth are still doing this for fun.

> They rehearsed twice a week during the fall, winter and spring. It was a year-round, local activity. It cost them very little money, only their time. They did it to hang around with the other kids in the neighborhood. The corps provided the instruments, and the basic instruction. The kids with more talent learned to play well. The kids with less talent played the best they could.

And so do the corps in DCA, SDCA, and the lower levels of DCI today!!!!

> That was why, even in the big corps, the third soprano and third baritone parts in all corps were pretty basic.

Your BITD must be way before DCI; because I marched in DCI BITD with a big corps and that was not the case.

> Can you imagine some of today's brass arrangers actually having to tailor their charts to fit the ability of their players? Of course they do have to make those choices in many of the "lesser", or Open Class corps. But not for the top units.

You seem to think that the top DCI corps should keep their quality of performance at that lower level for the sake of the kids who cannot play. The last time I checked no youth competitive outlet, none, desires that type of limit on any competing team. They do, however, have various levels of divisions such as in baseball: There is pee-wee baseball, then little-league, then high-school, then university, then the MLB. There is no expectation of the pee-wees to know anything therefore they will be trained on the fundamentals, and there is no expectation to train the university or MLB players on the fundamentals.

> According to Mr drillman, and other posters, those top units are the only ones who should be allowed to exist.

Wrong!!! Drillman has never posted anything supporting any such contention, and neither have I.

> Well; guess what? You elitists are about to get exactly what you wished for. I hope you like it.

DCI WC has become the highest level of the marching activity so as to allow high level youth to perform with other high level youth; that is not elitist because any unit which can perform at that level is allowed to compete at that level (elitist would be excluding the opportunity for any other groups to enter the WC). Neither Drillman nor I have ever promoted kicking out any youth or any corps from DCI; that is why DCI has two divisions; and why I also support SDCA and hope to see DCNA prosper. And guess what? I for one do like it.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Stu

[GUARDLING]

Ahhh the excuse, "Kids have alot of choices!" These include.....sitting on computers after school and playing games, XBox or PS3, Talking and texting on the cell phone. Sitting around and watching TV. Doing chores at home? NO! Partying more than kids in the 70's? YES

Every kid in drum corps today will be so much better than the kid who sits at home on his butt to play World of Warcraft.

[/quote

Not an excuse..kids today DO have many many more choices than BITD including going from corps to corps which was rare BITD........ANd yes it also includes all the things you also said including TEXTING....TV...COMPUTERS.. all of that which makes the world a very different place than it was way back when

[DrillmanSop06]

I'm suggesting that there are no longer enough corps in existence to make it a practical or effective tactic. I'm also suggesting that a completely untrained kid is rejected out of hand because the highly professional staff of "music educators" in today's very part time, non-local drum corps has no time to actually educate a noobie. They regard that as someone else's job. Mr drillman states that DCI is University level. That's true. Maybe in some places the school systems have great music programs. Those places are usually not in urban areas where music programs have been eliminated, or severely curtailed. I'm not aware of any way to get into a university is you've never gone to elementary school or high school.

BITD all corps trained their own kids, either with the big corps, or through a feeder corps. ALL corps had a few "subs" who didn't make the line, but filled in in case a starter was sick, of injured. I'm sure the big boys have a few subs travelling with them for emergencies.

But. Here's the secret. BITD, when there were over a thousand corps, very few of the kids involved had any interest in having a serious musical career. They did it for fun. They rehearsed twice a week during the fall, winter and spring. It was a year-round, local activity. It cost them very little money, only their time. They did it to hang around with the other kids in the neighborhood. The corps provided the instruments, and the basic instruction. The kids with more talent learned to play well. The kids with less talent played the best they could. That was why, even in the big corps, the third soprano and third baritone parts in all corps were pretty basic. Can you imagine some of today's brass arrangers actually having to tailor their charts to fit the ability of their players? Of course they do have to make those choices in many of the "lesser", or Open Class corps. But not for the top units.

According to Mr drillman, and other posters, those top units are the only ones who should be allowed to exist. Well; guess what? You elitists are about to get exactly what you wished for. I hope you like it.

No. Today we have real music education programs in our schools. I teach in an urban area with an excellent program. More than half of our kids are on free or reduced lunch and yet the band consistently travels and competes.

What are YOU doing to further music education? Your corps are dead. What are you doing to help kids today?

[DrillmanSop06]

And you're right. If only Surf wasn't turning away kids by the hundreds. If only Pioneer would go back to teaching kids how to march and play - even those with no experie- oh wait.

You are so far out of touch it's actually a little sad.

[Kamarag]

Every kid in drum corps today will be so much better than the kid who sits at home on his butt to play World of Warcraft.

Ahh, that old yard. It's just as much bunk as any other argument. Drum corps and video games aren't mutual exclusive. Quite the contrary.