MotorCityMusician Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 A request from a fan, Do something like youve done every year and ill still be a fan. -A Good Fan 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
En929 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Blue Devils, I love you. I'm not one of those people who hates what you do in this era of drum corps. The innovations and the genius in your shows designs are unmatched, which is why you win so much. Nothing or nobody can take that away from you, You are DCI's most relentless drum corps. Anyone who disagrees is simply either jealous or in denial. However, I would like to make a request that for one year (this year it's probably too late because the show is already picked) can you just forget about going for the "big win" and do some old Blue Devils straight forward jazz. I know there are elements of jazz in every modern show the Blue Devils do (even in 08 a touch of Gordon Goodwin), but for one year can you do it old school? What do you have to lose? Nothing, you already have 14 titles. Nobody can take that from you. What do you have to prove? Nothing, it's already been proven WITH your 14 titles. You can do what no other corps can do. So, give us all (including you) a breath of fresh air and give it to us old BD fans the way it used to be done...then go back to winning the next 7 years. All I'm asking is for one year. I would take a 4th or 5th place Blue Devils that hits me like 1986, 1988, 89, 92 or 93. Again, you have nothing to lose or prove and one 4th or 5th place season for some in your face old BD is not going to kill you. I still expect many more wins and many more seasons of "holy crap that's never been done before" innovation (which I DO love also). Take a year and just have fun. Just a request. You have to do what's best for the Blue Devils organization and I respect that either way. I will say I thought last year (2011) was a step in that direction already. Musically, there was definitely some vintage Blue Devils moments in there. The INTRO... I'd like to hear even more of it. Great post. I admit, even with the innovation and things that they do now, I admit I tend to like the old Blue Devils more than the new and I agree with the years you mentioned. I think we ought to get a petition here going and many people here put their names on it, and then give it to Blue Devil's director lol. Thanks for posting this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedb1975 Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Although I somewhat agree with the OP's desire to hear BD belt out some of the signature jazz that so many of us cherish from their past, I was perplexed by the implications that should the Devils choose to go in that direction and revisit their jazz roots, it would have to be at the expense of forfeiting innovation in the show design and would result in a 4th or 5th placement. I guess I'm confused by the concept that the two (jazz music and innovative show design) are somehow mutually exclusive. And given BD's obvious talent in all areas of the activity, I don't see why they could not develop a successful show which includes both jazz and interesting, dynamic design. Is there something I'm missing here? Just asking. [edited for typo] Photographer Jim, my apologies. I was not clear enough in what I meant by the "4th or place 5th finish" comment (and I'm giving you a "green plus" for the way you presented this). You are absolutely right that there is no reason why a good old fasion 80s-90s BD jazz show could not do well today. I'm just personally saying that if taking it back DID happen to result in a 4th or 5th place finish, I would take it. I did not mean that it absolutely would be the result. It might not be. As mentioned already, they did Channel One (quite a bit of it too) in 02 and still placed in the top 2. Obviously 10 years ago but still very much within a progressive time period. I hope that makes more sense than the way my original comment was worded. Thanks for bringing that up. You gave me a chance to clarify. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Although I somewhat agree with the OP's desire to hear BD belt out some of the signature jazz that so many of us cherish from their past, I was perplexed by the implications that should the Devils choose to go in that direction and revisit their jazz roots, it would have to be at the expense of forfeiting innovation in the show design and would result in a 4th or 5th placement. I guess I'm confused by the concept that the two (jazz music and innovative show design) are somehow mutually exclusive. And given BD's obvious talent in all areas of the activity, I don't see why they could not develop a successful show which includes both jazz and interesting, dynamic design. Is there something I'm missing here? Just asking. [edited for typo] IMO they do that sort of thing...even using Channel One in 2002, IMO a great show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Can you imagine the crowd response to a touch of Channel One? Yes, for a touch, I can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Five star topic! I agree. Most of the cooments on this thread are looking at this topic through a MUSICAL prism, and I understand this sentiment as I share some of the views expressed on this thread. However, the reality we need to acknowledge is that the juidging system is no longer your fathers's or grandfathers Drum Corps scoring system... and hasn't been for quite some time. The pathway to a DCI Title is not through the musical door..... but through primarily the VISUAL door. VISUAL design, and Visual moments in the show now carry the day. It is primarily the GUARD that carries the theme and the storyline in a VISUAL way to the judges. Corps today can go out with 80-85 brass, have 20 tubas, but this doesn't mean much at all. Just look at the last few DCI Titlists. How did they win ? Was it through primarily the musical show or the visual show ? I submit it was done primarily ( but not exclusively ) through the Visual side. For example, the Cadets show changed up the Corps uniforms, and utilized a new and fresh concept VISUALLY that carried them to their championship. The music was written and featured as a complement to the theme which reached the audience, and particularly the judges through the eye, not the ear, in a VISUAL way..... Corps scores are weighted more heavily toward the Guard. Typically, Corps have half the numbers in Guard than in Brass, which logically means that a Guard marcher carries more in the score than the brass player does. Many Corps use Guard solists as much as, or more than, brass soloists in the show. You can not rise in placements in DCI unless one has a great Guard. The Blue Devils design team fully understands these things, and has designed shows that are creative visually and feature outstanding Guard performers. In my opinion, we can't fault the Blue Devils for designing the shows that they do. Its no longer the era of the Music. Its the era of the Visual in DCI, and the iinfluence of WGI on DCI can not be overstated in my opinion. If one looks at this through a Guard perspective, or through a visual prism, the Corps that are winning DCI Titles these days are leaps and bounds ahead of previous Titlists and are ahead of the curve with their current Corps in competition. This is why early into last season I could see that the Cadets had " the goods " to win DCI by August. Thats because they had a visual show design and a Guard that would put them in position to win it all. Some of the other Corps in their mix, while I enjoyed them musically, I knew full well had no shot at all of winning it come August, as they dod not have the Visual show that a DCI Title now requires under the current scoring system and what ultimately carrties the day in the end. Edited March 1, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedb1975 Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Most of the cooments on this thread are looking at this topic through a MUSICAL prism, and I understand this sentiment as I share some of the views expressed on this thread. However, the reality we need to acknowledge is that the juidging system is no longer your fathers's or grandfathers Drum Corps scoring system... and hasn't been for quite some time. The pathway to a DCI Title is not through the musical door..... but through primarily the VISUAL door. VISUAL design, and Visual moments in the show now carry the day. It is primarily the GUARD that carries the theme and the storyline in a VISUAL way to the judges. Corps today can go out with 80-85 brass, have 20 tubas, but this doesn't mean much at all. Just look at the last few DCI Titlists. How did they win ? Was it through primarily the musical show or the visual show ? I submit it was done primarily ( but not exclusively ) through the Visual side. For example, the Cadets show changed up the Corps uniforms, and utilized a new and fresh concept VISUALLY that carried them to their championship. The music was written and featured as a complement to the theme which reached the audience, and particularly the judges through the eye, not the ear, in a VISUAL way..... Corps scores are weighted more heavily toward the Guard. Typically, Corps have half the numbers in Guard than in Brass, which logically means that a Guard marcher carries more in the score than the brass player does. Many Corps use Guard solists as much as, or more than, brass soloists in the show. You can not rise in placements in DCI unless one has a great Guard. The Blue Devils design team fully understands these things, and has designed shows that are creative visually and feature outstanding Guard performers. In my opinion, we can't fault the Blue Devils for designing the shows that they do. Its no longer the era of the Music. Its the era of the Visual in DCI, and the iinfluence of WGI on DCI can not be overstated in my opinion. If one looks at this through a Guard perspective, or through a visual prism, the Corps that are winning DCI Titles these days are leaps and bounds ahead of previous Titlists and are ahead of the curve with their current Corps in competition. This is why early into last season I could see that the Cadets had " the goods " to win DCI by August. Thats because they had a visual show design and a Guard that would put them in position to win it all. Some of the other Corps in their mix, while I enjoyed them musically, I knew full well had no shot at all of winning it come August, as they dod not have the Visual show that a DCI Title now requires under the current scoring system and what ultimately carrties the day in the end. You are correct about all of this. However, you must have missed my whole point. The idea behind the "request" I made is that they "forget about winning" for a year. The Blue Devils have nothing to prove. They more than any other corps in this activity could get away with taking a year off of the winning quest and just entertain. Nothing else. Again though, I'll still love what they do if that never happens (and it probably won't). Just a wish is all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 ...Photographer Jim, my apologies. I was not clear enough in what I meant by the "4th or place 5th finish" comment (and I'm giving you a "green plus" for the You are absolutely right that there is no reason why a good old fasion 80s-90s BD jazz show could not do well today... Disagree. The books the corps played a couple of decades back won't score today. The tempos, the extended phrases don't allow for corps to rack up the points they need. This is both a visual and a musical imperative. Drum corps today does move faster. You can't build up points fast enough at the pace of the previous era. What I'm wondering is how low would they drop? If BD played an 80s score this year, they could surely meet or even exceed the level of execution of their predecessors musically. Still, the value of that achievement wouldn't be as great on the judges' sheets. Meanwhile, I'm doubtful the visual program would be as interesting/appealing within the musical structure. So the value of the visual program likely wouldn't be as great either. A fourth or fifth finish sounds to me like wishful thinking. Then again, look at Madison the past couple of years. Its musical programs were throwbacks of sorts, and it managed to crack the top 10 even with lesser levels of musical execution. So maybe BD could challenge for top five - but only if the middle got a little mushy. HH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Most of the cooments on this thread are looking at this topic through a MUSICAL prism, and I understand this sentiment as I share some of the views expressed on this thread. However, the reality we need to acknowledge is that the juidging system is no longer your fathers's or grandfathers Drum Corps scoring system... and hasn't been for quite some time. The pathway to a DCI Title is not through the musical door..... but through primarily the VISUAL door. VISUAL design, and Visual moments in the show now carry the day. It is primarily the GUARD that carries the theme and the storyline in a VISUAL way to the judges. Corps today can go out with 80-85 brass, have 20 tubas, but this doesn't mean much at all. Just look at the last few DCI Titlists. How did they win ? Was it through primarily the musical show or the visual show ? I submit it was done primarily ( but not exclusively ) through the Visual side. For example, the Cadets show changed up the Corps uniforms, and utilized a new and fresh concept VISUALLY that carried them to their championship. The music was written and featured as a complement to the theme which reached the audience, and particularly the judges through the eye, not the ear, in a VISUAL way..... Corps scores are weighted more heavily toward the Guard. Typically, Corps have half the numbers in Guard than in Brass, which logically means that a Guard marcher carries more in the score than the brass player does. Many Corps use Guard solists as much as, or more than, brass soloists in the show. You can not rise in placements in DCI unless one has a great Guard. The Blue Devils design team fully understands these things, and has designed shows that are creative visually and feature outstanding Guard performers. In my opinion, we can't fault the Blue Devils for designing the shows that they do. Its no longer the era of the Music. Its the era of the Visual in DCI, and the iinfluence of WGI on DCI can not be overstated in my opinion. If one looks at this through a Guard perspective, or through a visual prism, the Corps that are winning DCI Titles these days are leaps and bounds ahead of previous Titlists and are ahead of the curve with their current Corps in competition. This is why early into last season I could see that the Cadets had " the goods " to win DCI by August. Thats because they had a visual show design and a Guard that would put them in position to win it all. Some of the other Corps in their mix, while I enjoyed them musically, I knew full well had no shot at all of winning it come August, as they dod not have the Visual show that a DCI Title now requires under the current scoring system and what ultimately carrties the day in the end. You do realize that the sheets just got a complete overhaul to gain more credit specifically in the value of entertainment, right? We live in a circular world in a circular universe where history DOES repeat itself. Never forget that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Then again, look at Madison the past couple of years. Its musical programs were throwbacks of sorts, and it managed to crack the top 10 even with lesser levels of musical execution. So maybe BD could challenge for top five - but only if the middle got a little mushy. Madison's 2011 New York Morning show was NOT a "throwback". 2010, Yes. Definitely a thrownback. Which proves your whole point false because yes, if The Blue Devils did a show like that they would score higher than Madison did. A great drum corps is still a great drum corps regardless of what they play. Also, there is plenty of jazz music with very brisk tempos that could be used and compromised well with the right kind of theme behind it. The Blue Devils still offer elements from the jazz idiom every year in every show they do. The difference is, it's cut and pasted in such a way that makes it cohesive to the thematical intent of the show. There are however, possibilities to do so more boldly. 02 was broguth up several times on this thread. That show made the top 2 and was pretty straight forward in it's approach to the integrity of the original music. Channel One Suite was not chopped up. Shorter than the 86 version? Yes. Chopped up, not really. Edited March 1, 2012 by bmjfelts1988 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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