corpsband Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You seem to be an angry person. I hope you get over it. When I was a kid in the 50s, Mother and her sister (they are both gone now after long lives) would take me to the Ballet, usually for Aaron . <long attempt to salvage some air of legitimacy deleted> ...but when the way-back machine gets perfected, I might go there) I stand behind my comments, or maybe in front of them, but Gallagher is in the hospital again, so we are temporarily reprieved from the smashing watermelons. Please withhold the brickbats. They are not edible. Hardly angry. Just sad to see ignorance perpetuated. We all have the privilege to express our opinion here -- no matter how absurd it might be :-) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Apparently ignorance is someone who doesn't agree with you. My positions are well founded and well reasoned. Get over your anger otherwise you define ignorance. Kevin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordog27 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 ALL the things you mention that guards today are missing is because in the guard activity ( for decades now ) it isnt required... Guards have gone way beyond being just another section of the corps. Guards have far more responsibilities to the overall design, concept,message of the overall package than ever before I myself was in one of those back in the day lines and if you go back and watch some videos of corps you speak of and I have, it was great but wanst as good as even I remember at the time. It wasnt as flawless .. We tend to have selective memories..Dont get me wrong it was hot ...especially for the time BUT since then for many years now I have taught in WGI, DCI and DCA and whats required of guards today..including excellence is far beyond what we did, just as show design has evolved over the years. This by no means takes anything aways from back in the day...its just different..but SO ARE MOST THINGS IN THE WORLD from then to now.....and why wouldnt it be...it would be a sad day if drum corps didnt evolve in over 40 years....JMO I am currently on staff with DCI, WGI, DCA, DCUK/DCE in the visual and guard captions. If a DCI fan wanted to see the cerebral, high-theatre, modern dance influenced, themed productions, they would attend WGI. Why does every corps think their show must have some meaning, or theme, or through line? Have well played, well marched, well spun productions of in your face music gone the way of the dodo simply because most corps have but one thought at the core of their mental thought process? I speak of winning DCI of course. When the basis for drum corps went from precision to themed shows and subjective adjudication, the losers were the members and the fans. It has become the desire of many corps staffs to present a production that is difficult to comprehend, and as a result difficult to judge. The fans are staying away in droves, you cannot deny that. Evolution is one thing. Changing just to be different and confuse is quite another. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonW Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) There have been, and still are, dancers in my family - along with many friends - that have decades of experience in their pockets. I have seen, understand and appreciate the dedication, commitment and skill required to perform at those levels. Still, I (and I'd suspect other DC fans) are simply not fans of ballet or 'interpretive dance'. It has nothing to do with mythical glasses - tinted, broken or otherwise. I love the flags and rifles, the brass and percussion; but some of the 'emoting' done on the field is almost cringe-inducing. That still doesn't stop me from craving drum corps and desiring to see every show I can. edit: oops. Edited March 19, 2012 by JonW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordog27 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This thread epitomizes how so many "old school" drum corps folks talk about modern drum corps. Respect is earned not given away. Posters like Kdoh , Cordog, and 7567BC summarily dismiss today's guards as 'window dressing' without having an inkling of a sniff of a semblance of a clue about the talent level and abilities of today's performers. And yet they're the first to complain about modern performers having no respect for the history of the activity (which in my experience isn't true -- corps have a lot of respect for their heritage.) Is it really so surprising that they're ignored like so much hot air? Yes yes I know. There *are* folks that 'get it' as well. But I think too often we like to overlook the impact of those who don't. </soapbox> Window dressing was never mentioned and I did not summarily dismiss the guards of today. One would be wise to not arbitrarily lump individuals into groups. I currently instruct DCI, WGI, DCA, DCUK/DCE and while the multiple responsibilities that are required with the inclusion of MORE lower body work in the guard books of today is admirable, to say the guards of decades past have no spatial awareness is comical. The vocabulary may be somewhat more demanding physically due to the inclusion of more dance/movement. However, the precision required from full unit phrasing is no less in decades past than is what is required today. There are reasons you do not see extended phrases of uniform work in most marching units today, and that is because they would not be clean. The guards were integral in show design before and still are today, but the judging is subjective and not based on precision. Look at some recent recaps and validate how a DCI winning guard/corps can get a perfect visual and/or guard score with drops and phrasing. I have embraced change and for that reason still instruct on many levels. That is not to say I do not respect and admire the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It has become the desire of many corps staffs to present a production that is difficult to comprehend, and as a result difficult to judge. The fans are staying away in droves, you cannot deny that. Except they aren't. Clearly, you haven't seen a DCI show in the last two or three years, because they have been more entertaining and engaging across the board than at any time in the last twenty years or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I've been watching, marching, and teaching in the activity for a really long time. I'm not insulting anyone from back in the day, and if you'd read what I wrote closer, you'd understand that. What I am saying is that today's guard members are better trained, in better shape, with better practice and rehearsal habits. They have a much larger and more demanding skill set, and can apply several of those skills simultaneously. Marching with a flag or rifle in the old style is ridiculously easy compared to the way contemporary color guards move through time and space, applying two, three, and sometimes four different skills layered simultaneously. It's no different than when I've said you can take any of today's corps, teach them drill from any 70's show, and they'd not only learn it in an afternoon, they'd clean it that evening. To think any different is ludicrous. I have no reason to doubt that you are absolutely correct. Yet, is it possible (I think it is) that more demanding does not equal more entertaining or more memorable? Harder does not always mean better. You can esoteric yourself into oblivion if no one appreciates it. I would not dismiss that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I have no reason to doubt that you are absolutely correct. Yet, is it possible (I think it is) that more demanding does not equal more entertaining or more memorable? Harder does not always mean better. You can esoteric yourself into oblivion if no one appreciates it. I would not dismiss that either. Not arguing that point at all, and you are right. I've found both old-school and new-school to be very entertaining in very different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordog27 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Except they aren't. Clearly, you haven't seen a DCI show in the last two or three years, because they have been more entertaining and engaging across the board than at any time in the last twenty years or so. Every DCI since 1982 except Miami, Buffalo, and Denver. On tour since 2007. The crowds are decreasing. Some due to ticket prices and travel costs certainly. However, many fans are simply not enjoying many of the shows these days and are choosing to spend their discretionary income elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Every DCI since 1982 except Miami, Buffalo, and Denver. On tour since 2007. The crowds are decreasing. Some due to ticket prices and travel costs certainly. However, many fans are simply not enjoying many of the shows these days and are choosing to spend their discretionary income elsewhere. Attendance was up both of the last two years according to data posted here on DCP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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