CHANGING THE NUMBERS IN A HORNLINE

[kentw]

For a while now (at least in the top 12 WC corps), it's been fairly stock to have between 72 and 80 hornline members. The usual split from top to bottom in the DCI maximum 80 person line is 24 trumpets, 16 mellos, 24 baritone/euphoniums, and 16 tubas. If one were to condense these numbers down to look more representative of the brass section in a concert setting (like an orchestra or wind band), it would look like 6 trumpets, 4 french horns, 6 trombones/euphoniums, and 4 tubas (or 3,2,3,2). That would be a weird setup for any orchestra or wind ensemble specifically in respect to the french horn section. Every wind ensemble I've played in actually has MORE french horns than trumpets. Orchestras, depending on the piece and composer, usually have 3 trumpets, 4 french horns, 3 trombones, and 1 tuba. That's enough to balance and entire orchestra. Since the mellophone is the bastardized french horn counterpart on the field, shouldn't that be mimicked?

So, in theory, could a drum corps mimic an orchestra's setup to achieve a similar balance? Trumpets often overpower the low brass based on the timbre and nature of the instrument. In order to bridge that gap between higher and lower voices to achieve perfect balance, you wouldn't even necessarily have to make the mello section bigger than the trumpet section. Maybe just equaling them out would achieve a more balance-able line - something more like 20 trumpets, 20 mellos, 22 bari/euph, and 18 tuba. I'm sure you could play around with the numbers.

Given that the tubas would have to be fudged a little, if this were to be done, do you think it would work? What other numbers and representations would work? What corps should do this? Other thoughts?

I think this is interesting. Let me know what you think!

Kenton

[ranintothedoor]

I think this is an awesome observation. Being overbalanced in the sopranos in drum corps seems to be a little weird, but I think there are some reasons it's evolved the way it has.

- In terms of mellos, the sound is much more intense and focused than the sound of the F horn so it cuts through very well. I think the 3/2 ratio works pretty well.

- For tubas, synth parts have been used in many corps to augment that sound (for better or worse).

- I'd agree that the baritones are a underrepresented here, but the bell front baritones also project well whereas the concert euphoniums (bell up) and trombones (in the back playing through other players) don't play directly into the audience's faces.

Because the brass that corps use are so homogeneous, I'd think the balance would better be compared to singers in a choir or a strings section. How do the ratios stack up there?

[corpsband]

For a while now (at least in the top 12 WC corps), it's been fairly stock to have between 72 and 80 hornline members. The usual split from top to bottom in the DCI maximum 80 person line is 24 trumpets, 16 mellos, 24 baritone/euphoniums, and 16 tubas. If one were to condense these numbers down to look more representative of the brass section in a concert setting (like an orchestra or wind band), it would look like 6 trumpets, 4 french horns, 6 trombones/euphoniums, and 4 tubas (or 3,2,3,2). That would be a weird setup for any orchestra or wind ensemble specifically in respect to the french horn section. Every wind ensemble I've played in actually has MORE french horns than trumpets. Orchestras, depending on the piece and composer, usually have 3 trumpets, 4 french horns, 3 trombones, and 1 tuba. That's enough to balance and entire orchestra. Since the mellophone is the bastardized french horn counterpart on the field, shouldn't that be mimicked?

So, in theory, could a drum corps mimic an orchestra's setup to achieve a similar balance? Trumpets often overpower the low brass based on the timbre and nature of the instrument. In order to bridge that gap between higher and lower voices to achieve perfect balance, you wouldn't even necessarily have to make the mello section bigger than the trumpet section. Maybe just equaling them out would achieve a more balance-able line - something more like 20 trumpets, 20 mellos, 22 bari/euph, and 18 tuba. I'm sure you could play around with the numbers.

Given that the tubas would have to be fudged a little, if this were to be done, do you think it would work? What other numbers and representations would work? What corps should do this? Other thoughts?

I think this is interesting. Let me know what you think!

Kenton

Trumpets <-> Mellos and Bari<->Tubas did not just appear from thin air. It's the result of many people trying many variations over many years. So it's not just inertia or laziness on the part of brass arrangers -- it's because it's a formula that's proven itself empirically.

[DrillmanSop06]

A drum corps is not an orchestra and a football stadium is not a concert hall. French horns are not mellophones and bell-front low brass does not equate to concert low brass. Drum corps arrangements are not orchestral or wind symphony arrangements. Orchestral brass is balanced against a section that doesn't exist in the drum corps idiom.

There are too many differences to warrant such instrumentation.

[CrownBariDad]

I had always thought you needed more French Horns because their sound was being directed towards the back of the orchestra and away from the audience. Plus, they almost always use their hand to shape the sound.

In this setting, I've heard the rule of thumb is you need 2 horns to balance 1 trumpet.

(If someone has already said this above, sorry. I haven't had my coffee yet.)

[Michael Boo]

Musical scoring is so different in drum corps from the brass section of an orchestra or even a wind ensemble for many of the reasons already expressed above. In addition, I'd suggest that in indoor ensembles, the brass have to be balanced against the non-brass instruments, whereas in drum corps, they only have to be balanced against themselves. Perhaps a better comparison might be made with the English brass bands, though that gets confusing because they utilize different instruments than to what we're typically exposed, (such as E-flat horns, E-flat tubas, cornets, etc.).

Also, in orchestra, trumpets and trombones are traditionally based on pairs, as are the woodwinds. In concert band set-ups, trumpets, tenor trombones and clarinets are based on triads, with much contemporary music splitting trumpets into four parts.

We're just a different world than other music, which is quite a bit of our charm.

Perhaps some day we can convince an orchestra director to move their members around the stage...DURING a performance.

[WPendergrass]

The reason there are more baritones, euphoniums, contras in a DCI hornline, than in an orchestra has a lot to do with the acoustics of sound. Lower sounds are less directional. This means a low frequency noise is going everywhere, not just at the audience, whereas the higher a frequency is, the easier it is to "point it at something". In an orchestra hall, you are providing an enclosed space, so even with the sound not being as directional as the trumpet, it has far less places to go.

A good example is when a hornline turns backfield when there are no back stands. The trumpet voice becomes almost instantly non-existent, but the tubas and low euphs can be heard very clearly.

[friceox]

The reason there are more baritones, euphoniums, contras in a DCI hornline, than in an orchestra has a lot to do with the acoustics of sound. Lower sounds are less directional. This means a low frequency noise is going everywhere, not just at the audience, whereas the higher a frequency is, the easier it is to "point it at something". In an orchestra hall, you are providing an enclosed space, so even with the sound not being as directional as the trumpet, it has far less places to go.

A good example is when a hornline turns backfield when there are no back stands. The trumpet voice becomes almost instantly non-existent, but the tubas and low euphs can be heard very clearly.

exactly.

[soccerguy315]

since you can mic small ensembles, really you only need:

4 trumpets

2 mellos

4 baritones

2 tubas

12 is the max you can mic as small ensemble, right? You can mix it from the box and just adjust their volume on the fly. When the big impact is coming, just turn up the volume on all of them and ta-da, impact!

[bmjfelts1988]

Without enough waffles, my plate is very unbalanced.