Upgrading the judges

[Tim K]

I can't say that I've ever seen some of the behavior mentioned in this post, but being from the Boston area and knowing what happens in Red Sox Nation when the Yankees come to town, perhaps I see it as mild in comparison.

As far as corps staff members crowding the aisles of the fifty yard line: first, there are safety issues involved. Aisles are supposed to be as clear as possible in case of an emergency and this is just plain logic. Also, if staff members are disrupting the people in the stands as Soocerguy has noted, this is wrong. Keep in mind, corps in most cases are paid performance fees from revenues that I assume come from ticket sales. People in the stands also buy souvenirs, and in the case of people who sit on the fifty yard line, probably support corps monetarily. The people in the stands are paying customers and should be treated as customers. It's basic customer service. While I know staff are often paid so little they are in fact volunteers, staff gets to see a corps perform each night. Spectators, especially those in New England, the West Coast, or deep South only get the opportunity to see some corps live once every four or five years. This also has to be taken into consideration when it comes to staff behavior.

This being said, we also have to remember the venue. If I were at the symphony and heard cries of "Men-del-ssohn Men-del-ssohn" from the audience the way I might hear "Mad-s-son, Mad-i-son" at a drum corps event, I'd be annoyed. I'd also find it odd at a drum corps show if as soon as the drum major took to the podium, there was a silent awe as the performance begins as I might expect at the symphony or a show in a theater. Drum corps performances happen in stadiums and the enthusiasm of the crowd is a huge part of it. Most corps thrive on the audience response, even the very best who may appear to be untouchable. Of course audience enthusiasm is not an excuse for boorish behavior.

[wvu80]

I'd rather see on-field judges just go entirely.

And I think no. 3 is a lame request. As a member, it was a hype to see my staff lose it. I've never seen anyone blatantly do what you are describing

I would suggest if a person could get "hype" out of "watching a staff person lose it", they ought to go into competitive cheer leading, where that sort of thing is expected, and baby girls can get that kind of attention from their moms that they've always craved. ;)

+++

I've never seen anyone blatantly do what you are describing

I have examples, and some corps were worse than others, but I don't want to turn the thread into corps bashing.

To be honest, it was far worse back in the "old days" when many lower scoring corps were just wannabes and frankly had very young staff who were not professional grade. The (young) staff would come flying up into the stands, almost always on the 50, sit on the steps, and whoop and holler throughout the entire performance. Then just as the closer was hitting, BEFORE THE END OF THE SHOW they would go flying DOWN the steps screaming, clapping and "hyping" their corps. It was incredibly annoying, and again, not all corps did this, just a noticeable few.

I did question some of the staff members (a certain Canadian corps, the worst ever offender IMO) what right they had sitting on the 50 ruining it for others, and the reply was that they had a "right" to be there because they HAD to critique the performance for their corps, and if I didn't like it I didn't have to sit there, I could leave.

I am not making any of this up, and believe me I have other examples. I think it still happens, and should be relatively easy to stop if DCI will continue to show good leadership, as they have done in other areas of making the entire DCI experience enjoyable.

Edited June 9, 2012 by wvu80

[wvu80]

(respectful snip)

I'm sure you understand that these instructors have spent a LOT of time with the students. Sometimes staff cheer to drum up applause, teach an audience when a 'moment' is, or even to cover up dirt (I've known staff members who cheer loudly when a judge in their caption is close to them to try to distract the judge). But sometimes it's positive reinforcement to hype their students. And sometimes it's actually genuine enthusiasm to see stuff they've worked on come together. As a teacher, there are times when I see a student perform and they nail something we'd been working on for awhile, or they have a great run and I'm genuinely excited to watch them perform.

If you want to mandate controlled response from staff, you need to mandate controlled response for all which is not cool (and not going to happen).

First of all, you made nice points on all your comments. :)

Addressing the point I bolded above, instructors have 8 hours a day 7 days a week to "hype their students." But when the students put on the uniform and the show starts, it's time for the instructors to SHUT THE HECK UP and let the students hype the audience.

If the students are so ill prepared for their show that they need instructors to run into the stands during a performance and "scream" for the student to put on a good show, I would suggest the instructors haven't done a very good job with those students.

And all I can say, is the very top corps, the professional corps, the World Champions, don't do this.

There must be a lesson there somewhere.

Edited June 9, 2012 by wvu80

[wvu80]

I think that for staff who want to go into the stands, this should be the costume thay have to wear...

ROTFLMBO! WVU80 stands and applauds!

[wvu80]

For those of you defending the need for judges to wander aimlessly after the corps has come to a complete stop, please explain the drum judge at the end of this small two minute snippet. To me, asking the judge to stand still illustrates a simple way to add to the visual performance of the corps without affecting scoring.

Edited June 10, 2012 by wvu80

[soccerguy315]

i'm not a percussionist (or a drummer), but to me it looked like the judge was moving to take looks at different parts of the line.

[Jeff Ream]

i'm not a percussionist (or a drummer), but to me it looked like the judge was moving to take looks at different parts of the line.

yup

[DarkHorner]

If you choose to pay attention to a few judges when there are 150 members of a drum corps performing in front of you, then you really have your priorities wrong. Seriously, this is the most nitpicky topic that I have ever seen. Judges are not ruining any shows, or DCI would have taken action to assure that any interference by judges would be minimized. 99.999% of the people in the audience will never pay any attention to a field judge. In the same way, the members of the corps pay no attention to them either. If you are upset because a judge blocked a view of your child on a dvd, then maybe I could understand why you would be agitated. Otherwise, just ignore the judges and enjoy the show like any other fan of this activity would.

Edited June 10, 2012 by DarkHorner

[bluecoats34]

I would like to throw my two cents in, as I believe I have a unique vantage point. I have:

a) been a spectator at DCI events

b) been a performer (not DCI, but WGI, which I know is not nearly the same, but still gives me an idea)

c) have worked for DCI in previous years

d) am currently working for a corps

As a spectator, I was always so enthralled with the performance on the field that nothing in the stands could even stand a chance in distracting me. I also think that I would rather see a staff that is encouraging to their members and cheers for them, rather than a staff that is completely silent. I feel as if those are the staffs that genuinely care about their kids and their success.

As a performer, the moments when the audience went wild were amazing, but you really knew that you were having an awesome show when your staff was cheering. Because the audience doesn't know your weaknesses, and they don't know that you have never caught that "simple" toss. So when it finally happens in a show, why shouldn't the staff that worked so hard with you give you some cheering from the stands. Going back quite a few years, I remember my absolute most favorite moment in high school marching band was when the entire band nailed the ending phrase at a competition, and I just watched my assistant band director go crazy! It was such an amazing feeling.

Working for DCI gave me a rare insight into what exactly happens "behind the scenes". DCI does have a conduct policy that the corps and DCI staff are made aware of at the beginning of every season. As far as DCI "policing" at every event, that simply is not possible, just for the fact that DCI isn't even present at 75% of tour shows. The only shows that there is a full DCI staff is at premier events, toc shows, and championships. All other local shows are almost completely ran by Tour Event Partners. However, if you have trouble with a specific corps staff and don't have an opportunity to say something to them in the stands, every corps has either a phone/email that you can easily contact them with these complaints.

Working for a specific corps for the first time, I know that a corps would personally want to know if their staff wasn't behaving admirably in the stands. It not only makes the show not enjoyable for some, but it also reflects badly on the corps as a whole. So we would definitely want to be made aware of any disturbances.

[wvu80]

i'm not a percussionist (or a drummer), but to me it looked like the judge was moving to take looks at different parts of the line.

Your opinion is good, and I think you are well qualified to have a thoughtful opinion about the small snippet I posted. But answering your point, in my view, the judge had 11.5 minutes to listen to the different parts of the line, who were 3 feel in front of him. The show was over, the corps had reached their final set position, and there was no need for that judge to be moving.

This is a serious question, are you defending the judge moving around, or are you arguing the contrary point? (devil's advocate)

From my point of view, I don't think the judge is a bad person, or is trying to bring unnecessary attention to himself. I think he is judging as best he has been taught in judging clinics and trainings. I think if the clinic instructors said "be aware of the performers and be aware of yourself and how you fit into the whole visual show" the judge would stand at attention on the yard line as he did briefly (with excellent posture, btw!) and not detract from the ending by continuing to move while EVERYTHING ELSE on the field had stopped.

I know it's a minor point, but corps move heaven and earth to dot their i's and cross their t's to bring a PERFECT product to the field. Can't the judges contribute as well, in their own small way?