BigW Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Heh, Zingali gets a pass! Again, I felt George was genuine. It was about the excitement in his heart to see it all come off. His energy and enthusiasm was obvious in the clinic. The original comment mentioned "whole staffs" doing this now. In my experiences at DCI contests with George in the stands- it was just him with Two-Seven and Cadets, no one else. And truthfully, people got it regardless. I'd say the crowd reacted in many cases before he did or with him without a prompt. I'd imagine the Scouts last year needed no prompts from the staff to get their positive reactions from the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Your opinion is good, and I think you are well qualified to have a thoughtful opinion about the small snippet I posted. But answering your point, in my view, the judge had 11.5 minutes to listen to the different parts of the line, who were 3 feel in front of him. The show was over, the corps had reached their final set position, and there was no need for that judge to be moving. This is a serious question, are you defending the judge moving around, or are you arguing the contrary point? (devil's advocate) From my point of view, I don't think the judge is a bad person, or is trying to bring unnecessary attention to himself. I think he is judging as best he has been taught in judging clinics and trainings. I think if the clinic instructors said "be aware of the performers and be aware of yourself and how you fit into the whole visual show" the judge would stand at attention on the yard line as he did briefly (with excellent posture, btw!) and not detract from the ending by continuing to move while EVERYTHING ELSE on the field had stopped. I am not arguing the other side just to argue. That said, if you want to say that judges don't belong on the field at all, except perhaps the front sideline, then I might agree (I am undecided on that). But, obviously the judges are taught how to best judge, and I'm sure they share tips or whatever also amongst themselves. If the best way to judge is to move around, then I don't think it is fair to ask the judges to not move around (aka, ask them not to judge to the best of their ability) for parts of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) a percussion mistake, especially in a dome, will be drowned out by amplified pit and 70+ brass. The DCI instructors themselves have voted to keep the field judges in place...why? Because they know in todays environment of speakers, plugs and bigger hornlines, things will never be heard otherwise just saying dont be surprised if in the future it changes...at least the percussion people I have contact with have said that...for me doesnt bother either way I think some feel one day it may just be a judged activity of the overall not the mistake. Im sure somewhere in the future we may be looking at a different ways of judging and maybe viewing our activity. Edited June 11, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I am not arguing the other side just to argue. OK, thanks. I was curious, but not trying to be snippy. That said, if you want to say that judges don't belong on the field at all, except perhaps the front sideline, then I might agree (I am undecided on that). But, obviously the judges are taught how to best judge, and I'm sure they share tips or whatever also amongst themselves. If the best way to judge is to move around, then I don't think it is fair to ask the judges to not move around (aka, ask them not to judge to the best of their ability) for parts of the show. [/quote I think that is a good corollary, and worth a major discussion at some point. I was just trying to raise a few minor concerns which I thought might be dealt with very simply. Getting judges off the field altogether would raise a lot of emotions and would be a significant discussion in its own right. To solve my own three points, I wrote a memo for DCI they can copy and call their own, which can be easily be emailed to all the corps and judges. It reads: "Judges, please wear grey slacks and stand still when the corps are standing still. Corps directors, please keep your staff out of the stands between the 40's while their corps is performing. Have a great summer! " At least in the eyes of wvu80, problems solved! Edited June 13, 2012 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) just saying dont be surprised if in the future it changes...at least the percussion people I have contact with have said that...for me doesnt bother either way I think some feel one day it may just be a judged activity of the overall not the mistake. Im sure somewhere in the future we may be looking at a different ways of judging and maybe viewing our activity. they've been saying it for 8 years. And it's not just for the mistake...if you saw the new sheet, you'd know that. outside of the PA sheet in WGI, it's the best percussion sheet I've ever see, and it will REWARD things you'll never hear from upstairs in a dome, or even outside with a pit plugged in and 70 brass blasting away. The only thing that MAY get fixed moving things upstairs is if the amps are too loud, but I have my doubts, as DCI still seems unwilling to truly let someone know about that Edited June 13, 2012 by Jeff Ream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) they've been saying it for 8 years. And it's not just for the mistake...if you saw the new sheet, you'd know that. outside of the PA sheet in WGI, it's the best percussion sheet I've ever see, and it will REWARD things you'll never hear from upstairs in a dome, or even outside with a pit plugged in and 70 brass blasting away. The only thing that MAY get fixed moving things upstairs is if the amps are too loud, but I have my doubts, as DCI still seems unwilling to truly let someone know about that well the question is the progression of the activity over the years, should it be rewarded if NOT seen or heard from upstairs...Hey I really dont care either way Im just posing the question that some percussion people in DCI are saying If what youre saying is that a core group has been saying something for 8 years eventually change will happen. Its the only constant I remember a time when the field was full of judges, winter and summer and many said the same BITD that its needed. either way is a " mistake " not heard, seen, other than 12 inches away really mean anything in todays drum corps..many would say no, BUT I suppose there are some that would say yes.....as I said either way is fine Actually I have seen ALL the sheets Edited June 13, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 well the question is the progression of the activity over the years, should it be rewarded if NOT seen or heard from upstairs...Hey I really dont care either way Im just posing the question that some percussion people in DCI are saying If what youre saying is that a core group has been saying something for 8 years eventually change will happen. Its the only constant I remember a time when the field was full of judges, winter and summer and many said the same BITD that its needed. either way is a " mistake " not heard, seen, other than 12 inches away really mean anything in todays drum corps..many would say no, BUT I suppose there are some that would say yes.....as I said either way is fine well.....my hunch is if you can't hear it upstairs, scores will get nailed> I've seen high school circuits where the judges are upstairs on some of the most convoluted sheets ever,....percussion analysis effect or some such craziness...and the bigger the band, the less you can hear percussion. Judges in those circuits have admitted the sheet sucks, and the numbers are a joke, but what can they do? With amps, the size of brass sections....and in domes...you can't even really judge ensemble well upstairs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 well.....my hunch is if you can't hear it upstairs, scores will get nailed> I've seen high school circuits where the judges are upstairs on some of the most convoluted sheets ever,....percussion analysis effect or some such craziness...and the bigger the band, the less you can hear percussion. Judges in those circuits have admitted the sheet sucks, and the numbers are a joke, but what can they do? USBands percussion judge is upstairs. I much prefer that to having the person downstairs missing 3/4 or more of what is going on. The judge on the field has no way to evaluate how well the percussion are playing in support of the winds, nor can they evaluate the GE aspects downstairs. It is a different concept to judge upstairs, but IMO it is preferable to having a judge wender around at field level seeing some of the trees but not the overall forest as happens downstairs. For DCI I can see both perspectives. At that level there is a case to be made to have a percussion person "up close and personal" to the battery. Evaluating the line at that level is important for groups at the top level. At the same time, the other side can also make a case that it really doesn't matter if a person upstairs would not be able to hear something. If it is inaudible in the stands/box, what is the point of judging it? Personally, I think that sometime down the road the field judges will go away, as newer instructors become more powerful in DCI. It will be a while though. With amps, the size of brass sections....and in domes...you can't even really judge ensemble well upstairs I definitely disagree with this. Ensemble is the evaluation the music performance in the stands. You can't possible judge that from the field. I cringe when I hear field music judges make balance and other ensemble comments from downstairs, which sad-to-say does happen every now and then. I actually heard a field music judge make a balance comment about our cellist while stading right in front of her speaker. It was fine in the stands, but of course not standing a few feet in front of the speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplattSCV Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 USBands percussion judge is upstairs. I much prefer that to having the person downstairs missing 3/4 or more of what is going on. The judge on the field has no way to evaluate how well the percussion are playing in support of the winds, nor can they evaluate the GE aspects downstairs. It is a different concept to judge upstairs, but IMO it is preferable to having a judge wender around at field level seeing some of the trees but not the overall forest as happens downstairs. For DCI I can see both perspectives. At that level there is a case to be made to have a percussion person "up close and personal" to the battery. Evaluating the line at that level is important for groups at the top level. At the same time, the other side can also make a case that it really doesn't matter if a person upstairs would not be able to hear something. If it is inaudible in the stands/box, what is the point of judging it? Personally, I think that sometime down the road the field judges will go away, as newer instructors become more powerful in DCI. It will be a while though. I definitely disagree with this. Ensemble is the evaluation the music performance in the stands. You can't possible judge that from the field. I cringe when I hear field music judges make balance and other ensemble comments from downstairs, which sad-to-say does happen every now and then. I actually heard a field music judge make a balance comment about our cellist while stading right in front of her speaker. It was fine in the stands, but of course not standing a few feet in front of the speaker. I was right with you until you said "cellist"....record scratch...what? I thought that was only in Woddy Allen movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I was right with you until you said "cellist"....record scratch...what? I thought that was only in Woddy Allen movies. We have a gal in the MB who is a marvelous cello player. When we did "Crouching Tiger, Hisdden Dragon" music in 2010, we decided to feature her in the second half of the show (she was in the guard the first half), as in the film the music by Tan Dun featured Yo Yo Ma throughout. Last year, in doing Sweeney Todd as our show, we decided to feature her in the second half again, including a solo on "Not While I'm Around". She was a DM the first half of the show. This year she is a senior, but she will only DM, not play. Here she is last season: Loved "Take the Money and Run"...one of my all-time favorite Woody Allen films!!! Edited June 13, 2012 by MikeD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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