Jeff Ream Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Instrumentation is not preventing anyone that has a genuine desire from participating in most drum corps. If you genuinely want to do it, you pick up a different instrument. Instrumentation only impacts participation potential for those who would more likely participate if it was a bit easier for them (more local, less expensive, less demanding). The argument here is not about growing the activity on the top tier of WC by adding woodwinds. Again, those kids who have what it takes to participate figure it out, regardless of what their primary instrument is. The argument is to grow the segment of the activity that is less demanding (from both performance and touring) and more accessible to those youth who would like to participate in some way without the level of commitment required for extensive touring. For these groups, woodwinds make a hell of a lot of sense. The idea of having youth bands perform and be judged at shows is not anything revolutionary or even close to new. Back in my day, Spirit of Sunnyvale used to perform at a lot of shows. A lot of kids from there went on to march SCV, BD, VK, Freelancers... but a lot were fully content with their youth band experience. Anyway, the more I think about this... it makes a hell of a lot of sense. Why not? and how did that summer band thing work out? I mean if such a great idea, should it not have died 10 years ago? I mean, if a director wants woodwinds so badly, they should have the stones to strike out like Star did and try it. Blast had no woodwinds. was it Shockwave, the Blast II thing with woodwinds...um...how well did that turn out for them? People that refuse to learn from the past are doomed to making the same mistakes Edited June 27, 2012 by Jeff Ream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 . . .and there it will stay, forever, as an activity. Why? . . .because it only knows how to borrow from others. Pastiche isn't an art form, it's an homage. The Blue Devils do nothing more than crib from WGI, as does most of DCI. They borrow liberally from wind band music and BOA/WGI. That's what the activity is now, more or less. Adding woodwinds (the point of the thread) will only add to the stagnation: Design meeting after passage . . . "Ohhhh, I got it, my band program is playing Hounds of Spring. Yeah! We can do that and Russian Christmas Music and play an all Alfred Reed show! People will love it!" "Heeeeey, our orchestra is doing Rhapsody in Blue: we can play that....with a REAL CLARINET in the pit. Oh man, and the piano patch! Wow, this is gonna be great!" "Duuuuude! Kronos Quartet did this, we should TOTALLY use it for a pre-show!" I trust drum corps design teams to be "original" or "progressive" about as far as I can throw Michael Cesario. Drum corps programming now is designed to take as little risk as possible in order to max out some check boxes for upstairs. Tell you what, Daniel, why don't we get Hop, Gibbs et al to actually take some risks with what they have now instead of tilting at windmills with woodwinds? No? I didn't think so. :worthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 ummmm Ever listen to Ensemble Modern playing The Yellow Shark? Ninja please! Oh yeah... love that Zappa stuff... G-Spot Tornado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I think Beavis said he wanted a tattoo of a butt with a tattoo of a butt on it. hee hee...Cool! I was considering a tattoo of my butt on my butt, but I didn't think there would be enough space for it if I made it life-sized, especially if I continue to lose weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 True. For that matter, bands competing in a parallel division to drum corps is not new either....it pre-dates organized field competition. Bands and corps both had contests set up when the American Legion organized competitions just after World War I. The idea of staging these contests on the field developed in the mid-1920s. And if I read the American Legion article from last month right, the AL still has some sort of a band competition or show. Will have to grab dads magazine again when the report on the National convetion comes out to check. LOL, have a instrument maker ad (Conn?) at home that was in a 1929 AL magazine. Bought it because one of my hometown Posts band is pictured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The one thought that always makes me scratch my head is this: Why is it ok to take an exisiting art form/idiom, and morph it into something else, without any marketing and research to actually see if its a product anyone wants - and in doing so destroying a said exisiting art form/idiom and taking it away from an already established fan base that already wants the product offered to them. All the people that liked drum corps without amplification and electronics were forced kicking and screaming to jump on the band wagon, or get lost, theres nothing else on the junior scene anymore that was the way it was......now they want to add woodwinds and totally destroy the grnre, again, levaing nothing for those folks that already enjoy whats been established. YOu tell me how thats taking caree of your customers, your fans, and most importantly, the kids that "just wanna do drum corps" They have an outlet for woodwinds...its called school and college. Saxaphones are great....in a marching band. When I want to hear them I seek out a venue that offers them, I have a choice..adding them to drum corps voids me that choice, I no longer choose, its forced down my throat..or I stop going. Geoffrey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowtron Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The one thought that always makes me scratch my head is this: Why is it ok to take an exisiting art form/idiom, and morph it into something else, without any marketing and research to actually see if its a product anyone wants - and in doing so destroying a said exisiting art form/idiom and taking it away from an already established fan base that already wants the product offered to them. All the people that liked drum corps without amplification and electronics were forced kicking and screaming to jump on the band wagon, or get lost, theres nothing else on the junior scene anymore that was the way it was......now they want to add woodwinds and totally destroy the grnre, again, levaing nothing for those folks that already enjoy whats been established. YOu tell me how thats taking caree of your customers, your fans, and most importantly, the kids that "just wanna do drum corps" They have an outlet for woodwinds...its called school and college. Saxaphones are great....in a marching band. When I want to hear them I seek out a venue that offers them, I have a choice..adding them to drum corps voids me that choice, I no longer choose, its forced down my throat..or I stop going. Geoffrey It's not about you, it's about the kids. And the art form does not change much. Corps and bands have become very similar with the only difference being practice time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The one thought that always makes me scratch my head is this: Why is it ok to take an exisiting art form/idiom, and morph it into something else, without any marketing and research to actually see if its a product anyone wants - and in doing so destroying a said exisiting art form/idiom and taking it away from an already established fan base that already wants the product offered to them. I remember some the discussion for change. What I got (some between the lines was): "Drum Corps in trouble, we need to change NOW!" Of course when you make multiple changes close together you can't determine the real results. Was it the amos, was it the key change, was it the... or any combo of the above. "MB have more fans than DC, they must be doing it right". Nothing like a shallow observation without looking at the differences in fan base, needs of the different organizations, etc, etc. "The show designers are running out of ideas and need more tools" Yes this was "spoken out loud" here. Bunch of Bb reasons that actually made sense $$$$ wise for corsp and members.... s/ Guy who likes DC for brass/percussion only sound.... different can be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowtron Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 and how did that summer band thing work out? I mean if such a great idea, should it not have died 10 years ago? I mean, if a director wants woodwinds so badly, they should have the stones to strike out like Star did and try it. Blast had no woodwinds. was it Shockwave, the Blast II thing with woodwinds...um...how well did that turn out for them? People that refuse to learn from the past are doomed to making the same mistakes I'm sure Blast 2 sales had nothing to do with instrumentation. The audience does not care about that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 With my traditional, rigid, puritanical thinking fully acknowledged, I did the "progressvie" thing and played through what I could find of Kronos on the Tube. It's no wonder I, as a classical music fan, have never heard of them. They don't play classical music. They play on classical instruments but they don't play classical music. Schnittke sounded like an angry swarm of bees, and I watched for nearly an hour as the quartet tried to meld themselves around throat singing. Yes, they play cellos as well as fence wire. Not trying to sell you on Kronos necessarily (I agree with most of your complaints). But if you enjoy more traditional string quartets and have any patience whatsoever for Philip Glass, check out Kronos' recordings of Glass's String Quartets. Quartet #2, "Company" is pretty straight up 80s-style Glass, but it's beautiful stuff, and Quartet #5 is a serious masterpiece, IMO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE1mCjPrH6o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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