drumcorpsdrummerman2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 A&E... Influence? He presented the proposal, so he made his case. Somebody had to actually create a proposal for there to be something that could be put to a vote, and he did so. In that way, yes, he had some sort of 'influence'; however, he was but one voice, and from what I have been told, not even the primary mover and shaker on A&E...he was just the point person. The support of the various instructors played a arole as well...they had wanted those elements for a long time. WW... Yes, that is pretty much what he is on this topic, as there is no internal groundswell of support for WW and other instruments in DCI, sad to say....by the instructors and other directors. I think this (the bold and underscored) is the most important point (and I am NOT "sad to say" it). The difference between A&E and Bb instruments...and even 3 valve bugles (which were once a serious issue) is that there was a lot of support behind those changes from a lot of major figure heads in the activity. Regardless of "the BOD issue" or "Hop not giving up", Hop didn't have to convince many others of the changes we have already seen. He was far from alone. Woodwinds? While we know there are a few out there who support the idea, there are VERY "few" and likely not enough to make this change a reality any time soon. And as for the BOD, yes, I'll still hold that regarless of whether he can vote or make the proposal, he has some BOD members who hold office above him who I know would fight such a proposals and likely use their own power to fight it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsdrummerman2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Jeff DCP is hardly the masses..... but I also thing mass hysteria or the pitch fork and torch crowd do little to help the activity Also let me make it clear I am NOT by no means defending the old proposal not defending the man who graces the pages of this topic ( far from it ) I am NOT for WWs at all...to say it will never happen I do think is a little premature. As in everything its only going to take some staff to push a director to make almost anything happen. Its how it works, how its always worked. Kinda how the world works also. Young people will change, force change, be tomorrows leaders, as it should be. Theres tons of little HOPS out there ( unfortunately ) Hell theres a bunch on here also, just none with the influence to move things the way they would like. lastly , for those who think this person doesnt have influence within the activity is very wrong. he may not have a board seat etc etc BUT he has one of the most influential corps in the activity and that pulls alot in the big scheme of things, it is a respected corps and a very successful one and people listen and gravitate to it. There are many who strive to be it and although he may be one of the most disliked people in the activity for how he thinks the activity should move forward. Its still a powerful voice. I think you might be overstating your point just a bit. People like Chris Komnick are not going to "gravitate" to Hop's voice nor do such directors strive to "be it". Just look at how different such directors and such corps play their game. I'm quite certain that a huge chunk of the new BOD if not the entire bunch have plans of their own to change some of the rules of the game. In fact they have made that quite obvious. And it doesn't appear that their plans are to send drum corps into further confusion by adding elements like woodwinds. If anything, they appear to want to re-visit some of the roots that the drum corps activity has left behind. Just look at the new sheets and the terms used within the writing of the sheets. In constext of such plans of the new BOD, I'm fairly confident in assuming that Hop's voice is not as loud as it used to be. He now has some people fighting back...and those people do hold office in the BOD that Hop no longer holds...regardless of whether he has the legal ability to vote or propose new rules. Yeah, he can sit in on the meetings and make proposals, but he's not sitting in the big boy's chair in those meetings any longer and that is a very powerful thing. Edited July 3, 2012 by drumcorpsdrummerman2012 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 He gets off on it. Anyway, people talk like the guy is some evil genius that is single-handedly driving the entire direction of the activity, that he has some mad long-term 3D chess scheme. If only the guy were that focused and that organized. The truth is he is the hardest working guy I have met in my entire life. No question. Also no question that he puts his whole self into what he does. But Cadets and YEA are successful because of hard work, brute force and trial and error... and more endless hard work... not some evil plan. Also, there is no Yamaha conspiracy. Firstly, it isn't like selling musical instruments to schools is some easy sell... that Yamaha just equips some super corps and all school bands follow along right after. If only it was like that... Secondly, Yamaha simply supports drums corps to get their name out there, to show that their stuff is quality.... can hold up... to provide case reference, etc. ... but at the end of the day, school district purchasing is such a wildcard, Yamaha supporting a group that has woodwinds wouldn't make even the slightest difference... as it isn't relevant to the purchasing process... AT ALL. Back to the point... the motivation for adding woodwinds. In George's mind, I think he genuinely believes in the idea that adding them will allow the ability to include more kids.... and I don't think he is wrong here. But, I really don't think he is thinking through the practical aspects of this (not really his nature seems to be more..... fire, ready, aim, fire, aim, fire, more ready, aim, fire... fire.... fire.... succeed). Drum corps is cool... but it is not the ideal or definitive musical education/performance experience for all kids. For some kids, playing in a youth orchestra or national flute choir or jazz band is a much better thing for them personally. Sort of silly to take a "one hammer" approach to drum corps, thinking that it really should be something for all kids. Kids that really want to do it... the'll move their ### and figure it out.... regardless of what instrument they play. Those that don't step up and do that... probably not a good fit for them... as the various simultaneous demands of current drum corps are a hell of a lot more difficult than just learning to play a baritone. Drum corps need to stop pretending they are some magical experience and that experience needs to be available to everyone. Apart from being logistically impossible, I sure as hell would not want to go to a drum corps show where it was easy for kids to participate... the same way I don't go to Jr. High band concerts unless someone related to me is performing. Anyway... woodwinds in drum corps are about as much of a logistical nightmare as a unicycle riding string quartet. Daniel, it's very rare that I will EVER say these words to you but... I agree with every ####### word you said here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 or just go on one big posting spree and let em all out And then I'd be fired. Seriously, Jeff, there are probably so many it takes a specific mention of something to trigger each one. I'm amazed at the detail of the stories I remember when I can't remember who my server is at a restaurant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I think you might be overstating your point just a bit. People like Chris Komnick are not going to "gravitate" to Hop's voice nor do such directors strive to "be it". Just look at how different such directors and such corps play their game. I'm quite certain that a huge chunk of the new BOD if not the entire bunch have plans of their own to change some of the rules of the game. In fact they have made that quite obvious. And it doesn't appear that their plans are to send drum corps into further confusion by adding elements like woodwinds. If anything, they appear to want to re-visit some of the roots that the drum corps activity has left behind. Just look at the new sheets and the terms used within the writing of the sheets. In constext of such plans of the new BOD, I'm fairly confident in assuming that Hop's voice is not as loud as it used to be. He now has some people fighting back...and those people do hold office in the BOD that Hop no longer holds...regardless of whether he has the legal ability to vote or propose new rules. Yeah, he can sit in on the meetings and make proposals, but he's not sitting in the big boy's chair in those meetings any longer and that is a very powerful thing. he is still however the public voice of the G7 proposal, and rumors still abound of an eventual split, spearheaded by Hop himself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 sex, bikinis, lingerie, blondes, brunettes, legs, boobs (oops), booty... Just seeing if these "click" with you so you'll write about them. (You may start a new topic if you'd like...) During free time at the former Expo in Montreal in 1975, I was approached by a young woman who stated, "I need to make money for medical school." My reply was, "I need to make money for music school." Apparently she didn't want to just exchange stories about our mutual efforts to put ourselves through college. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It's interesting, this belief that there must be some public ground-swell of support after multi-discussions for anything to be considered a serious proposal. How many of us here saw the "groundswell" of support for the G7? It's not like that debate took place over many years and Januals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 During free time at the former Expo in Montreal in 1975, I was approached by a young woman who stated, "I need to make money for medical school." My reply was, "I need to make money for music school." Apparently she didn't want to just exchange stories about our mutual efforts to put ourselves through college. (her) ...as she walked away... ..."boy, can I pick 'em." (you) ...as she waked away... "I'm so smart!" (you)...later that night while sitting alone in your hotel room... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The difference between A&E and Bb instruments...and even 3 valve bugles (which were once a serious issue) is that there was a lot of support behind those changes from a lot of major figure heads in the activity. Regardless of "the BOD issue" or "Hop not giving up", Hop didn't have to convince many others of the changes we have already seen. He was far from alone. Woodwinds? While we know there are a few out there who support the idea, there are VERY "few" and likely not enough to make this change a reality any time soon. I'm glad to hear comments like this from people currently directly involved. But I hope you can see how from outside the activity, what we see is Hop talking up the next big thing, and then in a few years, DCI changes the rules. Go back to his proposal from 15 years ago about the direction DCI should be taking, and you'll see that over the years he's managed to fill in bits and pieces of that vision. In 1997, he wanted any-key brass, electronics, a special tour of just the top half-dozen corps, and woodwinds. Only one piece is missing. Honestly to me, synths are a bigger, crazier, and more negative change to the activity than woodwinds would be, yet that rule change got passed. I hear people saying that very few people in the activity are interested in adding woodwinds, but the real question is how many are strongly interested in keeping them out? For those of us who believe that adding woodwinds would rip down yet one more thing we love about drum corps, it's important that we speak up and make it clear that woodwinds do not fit into the activity for us. If we hush up because "no one takes it seriously" and "George Hopkins has no power", then that's one more reason for a wavering staff or director to decide, eh, maybe it's worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It's interesting, this belief that there must be some public ground-swell of support after multi-discussions for anything to be considered a serious proposal. How many of us here saw the "groundswell" of support for the G7? It's not like that debate took place over many years and Januals. well, to be technical, the idea was kinda floated back in97 when Hop gave his vision of where drum corps should be. And the sad thing is many of his ideas have become reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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