Growth of drum corps through feeder corps?

[N.E. Brigand]

IMO there should be a coordinated effort between WC and open class on something like this. It is great that Spirit of Atlanta has a few move to the CV, but what if the kid came from Vermont, as I posed above? How do all the corps try and hang on to that person...to get them into their closest Open class corps, in this case the Spartans, for instance?

I have positied before the idea that maybe at the START of an audition weekend an Open class corps director come and make a general presentation about the Open class experience as an alternative to doing nothing. It could be a DCI-created general presentation, not something that would need to be created for each corps for each camp.

I wouldn't do it at the end... a person cut might not be in the best mood to hear about 'Plan B', so to speak, after just being cut from their dream corps.

Most intriguing. What if it were more than just a pre-audition presentation? What if every world class corps conducted auditions jointly with an open class corps, so that auditioness would be, as it were, twice as likely to be offered a spot?

[Jeff Ream]

well theres always some and if there are options within someones own org. I dont see an issue with that( why wouldnt one promote their won 1st ) IF there isnt then they can suggest others ( or not )...its not like other corps and auditions are a secret

true and some do a far better job of advertising than others

[MelloPrano]

I mean the top corps have always been fed by corps who place lower, when members decide they either aren't being challenged or want to compete at a higher level. This was the case pre-dci. My old man marched Kiwanis Black Knights in the 70s and they fed a bunch of the other midwest corps members, even know of at least one who went to the Troopers. That's just how it is in a voluntary competitive activity, when you aren't contracted to stay at your previous corps, you'll be tempted to go somewhere where your talents are more appreciated. Junior corps were just a way to engage local kids in drums corps and season them for the Sr. Corps, the ones that have stuck around have done so because they either manage to be competitive at their level or are very well managed. Frankly, I don't see that changing in the near future.

[Stu]

I mean the top corps have always been fed by corps who place lower, when members decide they either aren't being challenged or want to compete at a higher level. This was the case pre-dci. My old man marched Kiwanis Black Knights in the 70s and they fed a bunch of the other midwest corps members, even know of at least one who went to the Troopers. That's just how it is in a voluntary competitive activity, when you aren't contracted to stay at your previous corps, you'll be tempted to go somewhere where your talents are more appreciated. Junior corps were just a way to engage local kids in drums corps and season them for the Sr. Corps, the ones that have stuck around have done so because they either manage to be competitive at their level or are very well managed. Frankly, I don't see that changing in the near future.

Ehhhhh... sort of agree with you.... sort of do not. While it was true that many members of very small or way lower placing corps went on to perform with the bigger and higher placing corps there was not much jumping around from major corps to major corps until rather recently. I mean while it did occur on a small scale, for many years it was almost unheard of for a person to march with Santa Clara Vanguard then move to the Cadets; or to march with the Scouts then move to the Blue Devils. There used to be a stronger sense of loyalty/family connected to "your" corps and less of a sense of ring chasing.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Stu

[GUARDLING]

Ehhhhh... sort of agree with you.... sort of do not. While it was true that many members of very small or way lower placing corps went on to perform with the bigger and higher placing corps there was not much jumping around from major corps to major corps until rather recently. I mean while it did occur on a small scale, for many years it was almost unheard of for a person to march with Santa Clara Vanguard then move to the Cadets; or to march with the Scouts then move to the Blue Devils. There used to be a stronger sense of loyalty/family connected to "your" corps and less of a sense of ring chasing.

Unfortunately..this is the one thing that I do miss from BITD BUT there are many reasons why this happened.

1.members arent community based

2.many times lower corps are just stepping stones ( another reason why some cant progress )

3. Cost: many feel if they are paying they are going to get what they want

4. Ring chasing

5. Striving to be the best BUT not having to work years to make your own good, its just easier to go somewhere where its good already. ( Which is sad because,lower corps have a hard time going to the next level and lose talent every year)

6.A generation of entitlement

7.Ive seen many times where members are all into the family thing then off to the next WC corps the following year

8. Many today will just say ( well Im just trying to improve myself . ( which is true )

9. Years back directors I think had more respect for other directors

DIFFERENT WORLD..... theres the good and bad of it...hell i sit on a bus all summer and see kids dont even talk...they will text from the front of the bus to the back....

[bluudevil]

There seems to be a differing definition of the term "feeder corps". The Crossmen are NOT a feeder corps for BD. For the purpose of this discussion, a feeder corps, is a corps for members who are younger then the typical DCI member or Associate corps. With this understanding, Crossmen and BD are equal, they are each "teams" in a "league". A feeder corps fills the role of a farm team in major league sports. The Toronto Blue Jays are not a feeder team for any other MLB team, however, the Toronto Blue Jays organization has several minor league teams in its farm system. These minor league teams act as "feeder" teams for the Blue Jays MLB team - thus the terms "farm team" and "farm system" - "growing" young players for the major league team. This seems to be the definition which was originally meant by AsheyUechi in the original post in this thread.

I marched BD in '83 and '84. I lived with the Book Keeper. I wrote a computer program in BASIC, first on a Timex Sinclair, then later on a Commador 64 that took all the funds from the entire organization and showed all incoming funds, and expenses. I know the system they had at that time very well. The A corps, were the DCI champion corps we are all familiar with. The B corps was largely for kids in High School. The C corps was largely for kids in elementary school. They repeated this model with the baton corps which may or may not still be in existence. There was the jr twirlers, the Sr. twirlers, and the Devil's Advocate who traveled the world as the reigning world champion baton corps. They even sponsored the Diablo Valley Wind Ensemble. All of these "jr" organizations "fed" the A corps. Twirlers often joined the colorguard, wind ensemble members sometimes switched to the A corps, and members of C corps moved up into B corps and members of B corps would graduate to the A corps. This is a true feeder system and is one of the main reasons the Blue Devils are as successful as they are. Of course it goes without saying, to run an organization such as this takes very dedicated and skilled management members. This is the true secret of their success - skillful management combined with their feeder system which has been in place for over 30 years.

Before marching in BD I marched in the Bluewater Buccaneers from Sarnia Ontario. In 1979 our corps director, Norm Campbell, tried an experiment. The Buccaneers entered into "an arrangement" with the Leamington Townsmen. Each corps retained their own identity, and occasionally during the 79 season would perform as one combined unit under the Buccaneer banner. This led to the creation of the Buccaneer Youth Organization in 1980. The BYO didn't play around with one feeder corps, they immediately started with 3 - The Raiders in Port Huron Michigan, The Sarnia Pirates, and the London Imperials. Both the Raiders and Pirates were brand new corps started by the BYO and the Imperials were pre-existing. The older, experienced members of The Imperials marched as Buccaneers and the younger, inexperienced members stayed with the Imperials. This model worked from 1980-1983. Unfortunately, for the '83 season there was a core of near age outs that were very talented, very well trained within the BYO system who wanted to march at the DCI level but the bulk of the Buccaneers weren't up to such a high level of performance. As the corps only had about 50 marching members, when the near dozen core members left for various DCI corps the organization folded itself into two corps. The oldest members of all the feeder corps were invited to march in the Buccaneers, and the rest were invited to march in the Sarnia Pirates. The Raiders unfortunately folded and the Imperials continued on for a few years as an independent group. New leadership took over in 85, changed the name and the BYO was no more.

While it ultimately did not survive, I believe a modified version of the BYO structure is absolutely the way to go. It probably needs to be done in reverse. Start 2 or 3 feeder corps with the intent that they will remain feeder corps for a marching unit that will be created in a few years. Then, as those groups's members get older and more experienced and want something more - give it to them with the creation of the big corps. They are still part of their home "organization" but now they get to perform at a much higher level. If done right, with excellent management (which includes major fund raising to pay for excellent instructors) you might be able to keep your members through "brand loyalty". If someone marches 4 years in the org's C corps and 4 years in the org's B corps, and the A corps has excellent management and excellent instruction, and therefore are in the top 25, the members are less likely to leave for another corps then someone who marched a few years with an associate corps, doesn't have much loyalty and then either wanted a ring, or wanted to work with a particular instructor.

[Stu]

... The Crossmen are NOT a feeder corps for BD....

True in the technical and administrative sense of feeder. However, in the eyes of the youth performers of today many use the mid to lower placing WC corps as "stepping stones" to ring bearing corps like the Blue Devils. You indicated that you performed with BD in the early eighties; not many performers back then moved from lower placing WC corps such as 27th Lancers to the Cadets or Suncoast to the Blue Devils in the name of attaining a ring. There used to be a sense of love and identity with "your" corps; once a Regiment always a Regiment. However, today the mindset of many youth is more about self-status than love of the family unit; thus many mid to lower WC corps are certainly perceived by the youth as "stepping stones" to BD, Cadets, Cavaliers, ... in which they believe they can attain a top-three or a ring.