Michael Boo Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Trust me, I have better hobbies than sitting around on an internet forum intentionally trying to cause trouble or trolling around or whatever you want to call it. I joined this forum because I've been around this activity for a long time, and I enjoy learning and discussing things with others who share similar interests. If you think I am intentionally trying to cause trouble, then simply ignore my posts by not reading them or responding to them. I just think this story is very interesting, and I don't believe drum corps has ever seen anything like it. That all being said, I'm not sure where people get the idea that Madison continued on throughout the season last year in the hopes that they would eventually secure the sync rights to ESOM, even though they were told no in the beginning. In Michael Boo's original post, Chris Komnick said that the publisher gave them the definitive no back in May. So they made a conscious decision to continue on knowing that there would be trouble with the recordings, but not the live performances. A tough decision, yes, but I can't say that I would have made the same decision. I did see the show live at Finals in Indy, and it was a pretty memorable show. However, there are plenty of people who were never able to see the show live, and were turned off on Madison (and the others that had portions of shows blacked out last year) purely from what happened on the recordings. I agree that seeing drum corps live is important to get the feel of it, but the video recordings are also important to a lot of people too - if you disagree, then why do we all own a lot of them? Madison made a decision to pursue their show as written knowing full well that they were told no to the sync rights - I just think that they alienated a portion of the drum corps audience in the process, and I don't think I would have made the same decision for that reason. Quite true that we've never seen anything like this. I suspect it's not the last one like this we'll see, but I sincerely hope I'm wrong. May is pretty late to change a piece if a show is really coming together and if a corps knows they are still going to be allowed to perform it. Also, May is far enough into the pre-season that I'm betting the management and staff of Madison Scouts still believed they could find out why they were being told "no," and if their pleas got to the right person, turn that "no" into a "yes." And now, I'm guessing a lot of fans will hold on to the hope that someday (hopefully soon), they'll be able to own an official copy of the entire Madison Scouts 2011 show. I'm giving them the benefit of doubt here. If I was in their position, I believe I'd do the same. This was such an unusual happenstance, and so very unique in the history of drum corps, that I would believe with all my heart that if I kept working on getting the synch rights, I'd break down the wall that was erected by the exclusive given to State Farm for the year. And, I would do so without the knowledge of hindsight that became apparent once that commercial aired on 9/11/11. I can't fault the Scouts' folk for any of this. I can only applaud them for believing strongly that a great moment in drum corps history would be preserved well beyond the moment for which they were all working, along with the members. Corps have always worked for that final World Championships performance, no matter whether it's at Prelims, Semifinals or Finals. Staffs of corps in Finals get their corps ready to put on the show of their lives in Finals; they don't work to prepare their members for the DVD. I doubt any members come off the field thinking, "Boy, that was a great DVD performance." I want a complete DVD and archived Fan Network performance, but those are bonuses left over to remind us how wonderful the season was. And I hope everyone will have the opportunity to share in that someday soon. But I'm also convinced the people still working on this with the Scouts hope that even more. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 After reading Mikes post and thinking about it, the people IMO who should be the most upset are the members who might not hear a full recording of their show. Yeah, yeah... previous recordings had it... "loan" them back and forth, etc, etc.. But also have a feeling that this is just the start of more snafus with licensing and legalities. Problem #1 more members might never hear their whole show and that stinks (took me 35 years to hear part of my first season). Also how much will dotting the i's and crossing the t's add to the already scarey expense of running a corps or the corps circuit (DCI/DCA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffBanyots Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 After reading Mikes post and thinking about it, the people IMO who should be the most upset are the members who might not hear a full recording of their show. They can hear the recordings. Just not see the video of the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 They can hear the recordings. Just not see the video of the performance. OK so for Scouts the CD will have the full show but what is blanked out for ESOM on DVDs? Just a bit confused so thought I'd ask.... Probably have this mixed up with earlier licensing problems (not to mention a DVD I bought that had sound missing by accident ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoContraAlum Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 OK so for Scouts the CD will have the full show but what is blanked out for ESOM on DVDs? Just a bit confused so thought I'd ask.... Probably have this mixed up with earlier licensing problems (not to mention a DVD I bought that had sound missing by accident ). The CDs (and APDs) have the full show. The DVD/Blu Ray/Fan Network currently have the full show audio, the screen fades to black for ESOM. Hope that helps.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) The CDs (and APDs) have the full show. The DVD/Blu Ray/Fan Network currently have the full show audio, the screen fades to black for ESOM. Hope that helps.. OK got 'er now.... didn't realize the audio was complete. IIRC, other shows had audio blanked out because of licensing issues but this might be a first for complete audio but not visual(probably wrong...). Will have to re-read the thread with that in mind.... Weird.... have two DCA Weekend DVDs with partial no sound. One is the Ooops recroding of Reilly Raiders at the Alumni show (one I mentioned earlier). Other was during 2006 Prelims and CorpsVets lost sound for a while because rain got in the equipment (Hurricane Ernesto). Recording crew quit recording Prelims after that mess.... Edited July 5, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 OK got 'er now.... didn't realize the audio was complete. IIRC, other shows had audio blanked out because of licensing issues but this might be a first for complete audio but not visual(probably wrong...). Will have to re-read the thread with that in mind.... Phantom Regiment 2008 on DVD has Loris Tjeknavorian's "Dance of Ecstasy" (I think that's the one) edited out: no video or audio. Troopers 2010 on DVD has audio muted for Bon Jovi's "Wanted Dead or Alive". Cavaliers 2011 goes mute during transitions where they had sampled David Bowie's "Nature Boy". Crowns's 2011 preshow is edited to remove samples of Queen's "We Will Rock You" and Rihanna's "Rock Star". Those are all I can remember, though I think there may be more. (I think Kiwanis Kavaliers had an entire show that couldn't be recorded: Beatles music in 2003?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combia1 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 After reading Mikes post and thinking about it, the people IMO who should be the most upset are the members who might not hear a full recording of their show. Yeah, yeah... previous recordings had it... "loan" them back and forth, etc, etc.. But also have a feeling that this is just the start of more snafus with licensing and legalities. Problem #1 more members might never hear their whole show and that stinks (took me 35 years to hear part of my first season). Also how much will dotting the i's and crossing the t's add to the already scarey expense of running a corps or the corps circuit (DCI/DCA). I work with a group that had a similar synch license issue. Members were legally able to get a full copy of the DVD for educational purposes. But it could not be sold or distributed to anyone who was not part of the ensemble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 OK got 'er now.... didn't realize the audio was complete. IIRC, other shows had audio blanked out because of licensing issues but this might be a first for complete audio but not visual(probably wrong...). Will have to re-read the thread with that in mind.... From my first post: <Additional problems arise with synchronization licenses, which are required when pre-recorded audio is fixed to a moving visual image…something that occurs in television shows and commercials…and DCI DVDs.> The other prior instances of licensing problems were different and some did not involve synchronization. This one was so unique due to the exclusive granted the producer of the State Farm commercial that no one in a position of knowing could talk about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Phantom Regiment 2008 on DVD has Loris Tjeknavorian's "Dance of Ecstasy" (I think that's the one) edited out: no video or audio. Troopers 2010 on DVD has audio muted for Bon Jovi's "Wanted Dead or Alive". Cavaliers 2011 goes mute during transitions where they had sampled David Bowie's "Nature Boy". Crowns's 2011 preshow is edited to remove samples of Queen's "We Will Rock You" and Rihanna's "Rock Star". Those are all I can remember, though I think there may be more. (I think Kiwanis Kavaliers had an entire show that couldn't be recorded: Beatles music in 2003?) Thought Troopers were one of the corps having problems but wasn't sure. Beatles I thought was one of the tough to impossible ones to get rights to. But not sure what the latest is since Michael Jackson had the rights for a while but might have sold due to money issues before he died. If I heard right Sly and the Family Stone music is also owner by MJs group. But that was said in passing on TV during a report on Sly Stone (he's 68?!?!?!). Just saw Mikes reply: <Additional problems arise with synchronization licenses, which are required when pre-recorded audio is fixed to a moving visual image…something that occurs in television shows and commercials…and DCI DVDs.> Didn't realize the "legal answer" to this problem was remove the visual and not the audio. Interesting that the music was owner by one group, what is in the vid (IOW - Madison) was another, but yet another group (State Farm) had the license to show images with the music. Edited July 5, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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