skywhopper Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 So what is the solution? This will sound harsh, but the solution is obvious. You let the corps that cannot survive financially fail. Propping up inefficient corps is akin to throwing money into a fire pit. It doesn't do any good for anyone, except for the corps that is dragging everyone else down. I don't think the Teal Sound is "too big to fail." It is economic darwinism. Letting the weak and inefficient corps fail allows room for other existing corps, and perhaps even new innovative corps, to succeed. This has been shown in the real world over and over again. Failure sucks for those involved, but it is not always a bad thing. Those that survive will get stronger. As long as there are some safeguards to protect the members of the corps, I think this is inevitable and healthy. I don't think anyone is advocating just throwing money to poorly-run corps. However, your comments here are kind of strange. Why is "darwinism" the right answer? Natural selection is a fact about nature, but that doesn't mean we should embrace it as the solution to problems of human organizations, none of which survive on competitive talents alone. Every corps relies on the altruism of donors, parents, and volunteers. DCI is hardly analagous to the natural world. If DCI doesn't maintain a critical mass of member corps, it will cease to exist. Maybe Teal Sound or Racine Scouts are not in themselves critical to DCI's survival, but what happens when we get down to 15 world class corps or 10? How low can we go and still draw enough fans and recruits to keep the activity alive? I would argue that DCI needs more corps and more shows--that the current numbers are too small to be sustainable. Writing off a World Class corps folding mid-season as "economic darwinism" is not just cruel, it's self-defeating. As for your comments about "revenue sharing" being a bad thing, there's already "revenue sharing" of a sort in DCI in the form of standardized appearance fees. And between the ToC shows and the standard contract, stronger, richer corps are getting more money per appearance. But why should that be so? It costs Teal and Surf essentially just as much as it costs Bluecoats and Blue Devils to run their tour, pay for fuel and equipment, and all the rest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkjazzaxe Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It is such a double edged sword... the draw of DCI is that it is the absolute best in the world at what it does. People purchase tickets (at very high cost) to see the worlds best, not neighborhood kids playing aforementioned dented horns and 10 year old bass drums out of tune. To execute at such a high level it takes appealing to the most talented and dedicated kids. Getting those kids interested in participating requires the best instructors/designers/equipement, plus requires reaching far beyond local levels. This all requires lots and lots of money... not to mention the insanely high cost of just getting the corps down the road and fed daily. This has been the DCI way for a long time, this was how it was when I marched as well. To be a World Class corps is a very expensive endevor, and the ones that feel it the most are the ones who fight just to make it to semi-finals (corps like Teal Sound). They often don't have large alumni bases, deep roots in the community to people who view the corps as a worthwhile charity, etc. Those newer/lower placing World Class corps often struggle to recruit enough kids to be World Class, and often have to overlook late payers/non-payers/etc to fill spots- after all, empty bus seats cost the same to move down the road as if someone where sitting in it. Staff is paid regardless of teaching a 10 member horn line or 70 member horn line. It is a tough decision whether to tour or not if you are on the bubble financially... I've been there on the board of directors of a former World Class corps that we had to rule inactive due to mounting debt and lack of a way to pay it. Competing and touring at the World Class level killed the corps, it simply cost too much. Which necessitated raising tour fees to make ends meet and thus made the corps even less attractive to new recruits. Less kids audtioning = less money coming in, leads to cutting staff, leads to lower placing, leads to dead corps. As mentioned in this thread, lots of corps carry over debt from previous years- they have to, its almost the nature of the beast. Drum corps as we know it is extremely expensive and since most corps are not local it is next to impossible to find community help in the form of charitable donations. Drum corps, especially World Class, is very exclusive... plus not local at all (most members are spread all over country), rarely is able to perfom at local community functions, etc etc etc. All this adds up to making it very very difficult for corps to get outside help financially. Especially new corps who didn't come up in the day of the neighborhood corps, which often still leads them with deep community roots (i.e.; Bluecoats, Cavaliers). Corps like Teal Sound have a ton of things against them to be solvent financially. Regional tours and local kids would certainly help cut costs, but then would DCI have any appeal? There wouldn't be much seperation from any other public music school program, it certainly wouldn't be "Marching Music's Major League" anymore. I don't know what the answer is, the very thing that makes DCI what it is also seems to be what will kill it financially. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Am I missing something? How does doing a two-three week regional tour and then maybe a trip to Finals cost as much as a 8-week national tour? Mike my bad, I mis read. I thought you were touting the G7 Sunday-Thursday model only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkjazzaxe Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 One other comment in regards to Teal Sound... drum corps is an odd business in that the only real product it has is the corps. In the modern age corps don't own hardly any assets. They lease buses, purchase most equipment at cost in order to sell for pretty much they what they paid for it at season's end, etc. Come fall when the seasons over you are left with whatever debt you have (most corps probably carry over debt) and an empty equipment truck, food truck, souvie van, probably some carry over pit equipment, and uniforms. Horns are usually sold (or you are stuck with a $30000 bill to pay) in order for the next season's corps to have new ones (which is usually a financial wash), guard stuff sold off, etc. You need to field a corps that next season to generate income- audition fees, tour fees, performance fees. Plus if you want to get any community support you actually have to have a peforming group to support- people will rarely donate money to an inactive organization racked with debt. Its a tough decision to make- field a corps with mounting debt in hopes of generating a surplus of income to help pay off debt and keep the organization active, or pull the corps off the field and essentially sit dead in the water strapped with debt and no way generate cash flow. The corps only product is the corps. Pulling the corps means zero cash flow, plus the huge loss of credibility and moral that goes along with going "inactive". Once off the field it is really hard to go back, save for a total overhaul and bascially starting from scratch far down the road. I've had to make that decision and it is not easy at all. I think lots of corps are faced with this each season actually, I am surprised as many make it year to year as they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 my bad, I mis read. I thought you were touting the G7 Sunday-Thursday model only. Ah, sorry. I think AudioDB thought the same. Really, all I'm taking from G-7 is the idea that there's an upper and middle class of WC corps, and honestly, it's getting harder for the middle class to keep up. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkfdPRphan Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 MAYBE it is time to scale DOWN the number of members per corps - pushing some talented kids into other corps and raising their performance level? (....this is sounding like parity isn't it......just a thought) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Am I missing something? How does doing a two-three week regional tour and then maybe a trip to Finals cost as much as a 8-week national tour? Mike How do you feed and house the members in such a situation. WC corps members come from all over, and if the corps is to remain together they need to be housed and fed. As for housing...where do you house members for such an extended period of time in one place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkjazzaxe Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Corps that can make it financially either: A) have a long standing tradition in a community dating back many years and have close ties with businesses, philanthropic folks, alumni base who is "of age" to contribute (usually not until an individual is in their 40's and beyond... corps like Bluecoats, Cavies, etc. The board of directors for these corps usually have big "A list" folks on them, the same folks who are members of Rotary, etc. B) have a great business plan for cash flow beyond the actual touring corps operation. Good example would be the Blue Devils- huge organization with a ton of programs for everyone from their local youth to the World Class corps we are all familiar with. Plus they have (at least used to, I am assuming still do) a huge bingo operation. Lots of cash flow. Another great example is Carolina Crown, genius behind the scene cash flow from ticket operating, etc. Crown is a good study because they are a relatively new player in comparison to many of the elite. Another obvious example would be Bill Cook and Star of Indiana. Star had business created (bus service, aviation fuel, etc) specifically to contribute cash flow to the corps. Of course, Star is a huge exception, most corps don't have corporate figures behind them. The best case example is to have both long-standing tradition and ties to local sponsorship AND a great business plan/people on board. Stable and financially sound corps must have both I think. There are some top level World Class corps that make it year to year mainly on reputation. They have enough clout to have 600 people show up for auditions and pay huge fees, make top dollar in DCI performance fees, etc. Their main, if pretty much only, cash flow is from corps operations. Those corps do well to scrape by year to year on a razor-thin margin. You'd be surprised how close many of our big super-star corps are to bankruptcy on any given year. The system makes it really, really difficult for any new corps to rise up. There is so much working against them. To have lots of kids audition and participate, and be able to be selective enough to field a full corps with kids who ALL pay their fees, the corps needs to be really good. To be really good the corps needs top level design team/staff/equipement. To have top level stuff/staff you have to have a ton of money. To get a ton of money to get the ball rolling you need community support, and to get community support you need an organization that tugs at peoples charitable strings (youth/all inclusive/under served population/LOCAL kids/etc) which goes against pretty much everything a World Class corps is if it is to be a top level World Class corps! It is a vicisous cycles that is really hard to get ahead of. To get back on the subject of DCI, this problem- how to grow more corps,how to make it easier for corps to rise up and join the ranks of the elite- this is what I feel should be at the top of DCI's agenda. How to build upon DCI's brand of being "Marching Music's Major League" without alienating itself to grantmakers/funders/philanthropy due to it's exclusiveness and expens? What can DCI do to restrict the cost of fielding an elite corps? The corps are DCI's bread and butter, it all starts and ends with them. The more elite "headliner" corps available for shows, the more a regional tour model would work- the less travel burden on World Class and this would greatly reduce costs. Maybe more competitive restrictions as far as instrumentation and props go- this is one area that smaller/newer corps really take a hit on competitively. FYI when the electronics rule went into affect the corps I served on the board with couldn't afford to add them. Thus creating a larger descrepancy between them and the top-12 corps. The more the shows become like a Broadway production the more costs rack up and the greater the gap between the "haves" and "have nots"... etc etc... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Marching Musics Major League should have minor leagues. well it used to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 How do you feed and house the members in such a situation. WC corps members come from all over, and if the corps is to remain together they need to be housed and fed. As for housing...where do you house members for such an extended period of time in one place? Pseudo Parents. Most corps already have those ties established and have been in place for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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