5 good reason the activity is destined to end

[Stu]

STOP ####### COMPARING DCI TO PROFESSIONAL SPORTS. IT DOESN"T WORK. EVER. AHHHHHHHH.

DCI PROMOTES ITSELF AS A MAJOR LEAGUE; SO IT IS DOWNRIGHT LEGITIMATE FOR PEOPLE TO COMPARE IT TO OTHER MAJOR LEAGUES!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHH..... BACK TO YOU!!!!!

[bill]

Does anyone know the salaries of corps directors and exec directors? I honestly don't know. But I have seen 6 figures thrown around on here before. I don't know how truthful. But is that necessary?

Tax returns are public record; it's all there for those that wish to know, for any non-profit. Guidestar is a fine source for this type of information.

Edited July 13, 2012 by bill

[Blackstar]

I can't stand this anymore. For every example you can find the opposite example.

Someone mentiioned Blue Stars coming back from a smaller division to were they are now. fine, but were are 27, Bridgemen, Kinsgmen, Kilties (being a senior corps doesn't count if you follow the Blue Stars example) other corps that were finalist. Having ONE corps out of hundreds is not an example of a strong activity.

By showing that the Celtics won 14 championships in 41 years wtihout showing that there have been 14 different champions in the same time period. While there have been dominate teams but more telling is that there are twice as many different teams thats were in the championship game but lost. Competition.

Mr Boo mentioned that someone said the activity only had 5 years back in 1977. Maybe this was because of the changes going on at the time, different marching styles, playing styles, not the lost of so many corps. Its all about context.

They also mentioned Crown becoming a championship corps in a short time. That short time was 22 years. But of course theres Spirit who came within .6 of being champion in only 4 short years.

The issue of all this is not that there are no kids who want to march, its baout not having enough corps. No new corps means the death of the activity. Once again we lost 2 corps this year. Small corps yes but two we can't afford to lose. Only when a Colts, Madison or Phantom have issues and need to "take a year off"will people wake up. Once again until we find a way to make this activity to have a better entry cost its doomed. AND YES THE SKY IS FALLING.

[Stu]

I can't stand this anymore. For every example you can find the opposite example.

Someone mentiioned Blue Stars coming back from a smaller division to were they are now. fine, but were are 27, Bridgemen, Kinsgmen, Kilties (being a senior corps doesn't count if you follow the Blue Stars example) other corps that were finalist. Having ONE corps out of hundreds is not an example of a strong activity.

By showing that the Celtics won 14 championships in 41 years wtihout showing that there have been 14 different champions in the same time period. While there have been dominate teams but more telling is that there are twice as many different teams thats were in the championship game but lost. Competition.

Mr Boo mentioned that someone said the activity only had 5 years back in 1977. Maybe this was because of the changes going on at the time, different marching styles, playing styles, not the lost of so many corps. Its all about context.

They also mentioned Crown becoming a championship corps in a short time. That short time was 22 years. But of course theres Spirit who came within .6 of being champion in only 4 short years.

The issue of all this is not that there are no kids who want to march, its baout not having enough corps. No new corps means the death of the activity. Once again we lost 2 corps this year. Small corps yes but two we can't afford to lose. Only when a Colts, Madison or Phantom have issues and need to "take a year off"will people wake up. Once again until we find a way to make this activity to have a better entry cost its doomed. AND YES THE SKY IS FALLING.

Not enough corps? Death of the activity? Your view is way too myopic to see that there "are" plenty of corps available. Rockford, Illinois now has a new community drum corps for Peat's sake. There is a small parade corps in St. Louis; other small units exist in various cities! Many small corps are also involved with the SDCA across this country! And many corps are involved in DCA! There are still hundreds of corps around; just not all of them are in DCI.

[MisterA]

While I do agree with some of the original posters thoughts, I am not so sure the activity is destined to end. If you look back at the 70s and 80s, there were years where more than 40 corps would fold in the same season. And while it was devastating, the activity continued.

I think there are other factors as well that could really hurt the activity, on top of finances, the lack of schools interested in the liability of hosting a corps for a day or 2. It used to be a corps could get lots of schools to host them, all they had to do was clean up there mess and leave the place as they found it. A lot of school districts now require a full time janitor or staff person to be present at all times the corps is there. These are additional factors that could also end up really hurting the activity.

DCI is definitely aware of this and other problems. I know that DCI staff read the DCP boards on a frequent basis. I am also sure DCI is aware of current trends outside of DCI, including things like American Idol, and other shows where the fans supposedly control the results.

DCI has taken this information, and without a lot of people knowing about it, made DCI more like the TV shows, where the storylines become more important sometimes than the score itself. In recent years, much more than the 2 decades previously, you see more flip flopping of corps and scores. By doing this during the season, they can make something look more reaistic at the end of the season, and keep the suspense going throughout the season. And for the fans who don't really know all the technical aspects, it really does make the season seem more exciting. For those who have been around the activity for 30 plus years, it leaves us scratching our heads going, how in the world? For my wife and I, we enjoy watching every single corps, and have supported almost every single corps that is on the field this year(not necessarily this season yet) Placements aren't so much important, as seeing accuracy in the judging. SCV has been my favorite corps for almost 40 years, simply because I enjoy every show they put on the field so much(minus a couple of shows that I didn't think were amazing). This year I love their show, and they could place anywhere from 3rd-8th, looking at things so far. Would it be cool to see them in top 3 again? Definitely, but even if they place 8th, I still really love their show. My favorite shows this year so far have been Boston Crusaders, Bluecoats, and Phantom Regiment, but I am guessing none of these even make the top 3. But as a fan of the activity, I can see that DCI is trying to make things more exciting for the fans, even if they are going about it the wrong way, at least in my opinion. I also think putting one person, like Cesario, in charge of all of the corps to some degree, is definitely not a good thing. No offense is meant towards Cesario, as he has done some good things for drum corps over the years, but I think any time you put one person in charge of something for multiple groups, it leads to problems, including some things being stale.

I do think DCI is safe for another 5-10 years. Hopefully more. But they definitely need to change some things, some changes which have already occurred. I may not agree with some of the changes, but one cannot deny they have been good for the activity.

I think one of the biggest examples is American Idol. Everyone thinks the big deal is finding a recording artist that they are going to make a million dollars off of. So they make people think their votes are actually counting. In reality, the producers of the show probably already know as soon as they first round auditions are over who is going to win. Take season 1, Tamyra Gray in reality probably would have won, had the votes from the public really been counted. Instead she went out in round 4(the biggest "shock" round typically for ratings sake). So you are probably thinking, yes they lost quite a bit of money by having Kelly Clarkson win. Her record sales were probably far less that what Tamyra, considering her talent compared to Whitney and Maria, would have brought in. But here's the catch. By being the top rated show, do you know how much they are able to catch the sponsors for? They probably make a billion dollars a year in advertising money. So if they lose a million from record sales(which the market has changed over the years), it doesn't matter, as long as they keep up the ratings.

DCI has been playing money games the last couple of seasons with the lack of judges. So seriously, if you aren't going to have a full panel to save money, why not just have the first month of shows all be exhibition? If you want to save money, don't hire any judges for the first month. Or possibly just hire one GE judge who is qualified to do music and visual, have comments only, with no announced scores. Saturday is going to be most interesting, with a lot of the corps meeting up for the first time this season, and a full panel of judges. But I think the bottom line is DCi has recognized there is a problem, and are currently trying to solve it. Financially it is always going to probably be a struggle. And there is probably a good chance we lose a few more corps along the way.

I personally think local touring throughout the entire first month would be more sensible for everyone. I think staring in mid July, it could also benefit everyone, if they all did competitions like San Antonio, where every corps competes. It seems like with the number of fans that attend these shows as opposed to the number of fans that attend the smaller shows, that maybe DCi and the corps could profit from this. And more people would have the opportunity to see all of the corps live. Then they could split into 2 groups and do a mini tour together until the next regional. I wasn't there, but it sounded like the Houston/Dallas thing where half the corps performed one night, and then they switched and did the same thing worked out well. Not sure what attendance number were, but would like to know. They may be a little higher ticket prices, but if you get to see half the corps, or all the corps, it is definitely worth it to a lot of people, especially those who aren't going to be able to make it to Indy.

[JimF-LowBari]

While I do agree with some of the original posters thoughts, I am not so sure the activity is destined to end. If you look back at the 70s and 80s, there were years where more than 40 corps would fold in the same season. And while it was devastating, the activity continued.

The difference between then and now is back then there were new corps being created. Might not have been that great or stuck around that long but at least conditions were right for them to be created. Now hard to impossible start from scratch due to cost and lack of people willing to put up the initial costs because of the risks (IMO).

[charlie1223]

I can't stand this anymore. For every example you can find the opposite example.

Someone mentiioned Blue Stars coming back from a smaller division to were they are now. fine, but were are 27, Bridgemen, Kinsgmen, Kilties (being a senior corps doesn't count if you follow the Blue Stars example) other corps that were finalist. Having ONE corps out of hundreds is not an example of a strong activity.

By showing that the Celtics won 14 championships in 41 years wtihout showing that there have been 14 different champions in the same time period. While there have been dominate teams but more telling is that there are twice as many different teams thats were in the championship game but lost. Competition.

Mr Boo mentioned that someone said the activity only had 5 years back in 1977. Maybe this was because of the changes going on at the time, different marching styles, playing styles, not the lost of so many corps. Its all about context.

They also mentioned Crown becoming a championship corps in a short time. That short time was 22 years. But of course theres Spirit who came within .6 of being champion in only 4 short years.

The issue of all this is not that there are no kids who want to march, its baout not having enough corps. No new corps means the death of the activity. Once again we lost 2 corps this year. Small corps yes but two we can't afford to lose. Only when a Colts, Madison or Phantom have issues and need to "take a year off"will people wake up. Once again until we find a way to make this activity to have a better entry cost its doomed. AND YES THE SKY IS FALLING.

Do not even acknowledge the efforts by DCI to change in the past 3 years? We may have lost 2 corps but we've also gained corps elsewhere like in Rockford and in Cadets2. No one is sitting around doing nothing and your "sky is falling" banter is old news...

[JimF-LowBari]

Do not even acknowledge the efforts by DCI to change in the past 3 years? We may have lost 2 corps but we've also gained corps elsewhere like in Rockford and in Cadets2. No one is sitting around doing nothing and your "sky is falling" banter is old news...

Well time for the OP to define "activity". Does he mean DCI, Drum Corps in general or the marching arts as all three have been used.... Could have a different "sky is falling" feeling depending on the definition.

Edited July 13, 2012 by JimF-LowBari

[Shamu89]

I can't stand this anymore. For every example you can find the opposite example.

Someone mentiioned Blue Stars coming back from a smaller division to were they are now. fine, but were are 27, Bridgemen, Kinsgmen, Kilties (being a senior corps doesn't count if you follow the Blue Stars example) other corps that were finalist. Having ONE corps out of hundreds is not an example of a strong activity.

By showing that the Celtics won 14 championships in 41 years wtihout showing that there have been 14 different champions in the same time period. While there have been dominate teams but more telling is that there are twice as many different teams thats were in the championship game but lost. Competition.

Mr Boo mentioned that someone said the activity only had 5 years back in 1977. Maybe this was because of the changes going on at the time, different marching styles, playing styles, not the lost of so many corps. Its all about context.

They also mentioned Crown becoming a championship corps in a short time. That short time was 22 years. But of course theres Spirit who came within .6 of being champion in only 4 short years.

The issue of all this is not that there are no kids who want to march, its baout not having enough corps. No new corps means the death of the activity. Once again we lost 2 corps this year. Small corps yes but two we can't afford to lose. Only when a Colts, Madison or Phantom have issues and need to "take a year off"will people wake up. Once again until we find a way to make this activity to have a better entry cost its doomed. AND YES THE SKY IS FALLING.

If you want to give examples of what's wrong with DC, you have to be able to accept examples of that very thing not causing a problem in other activities. Don't expect your examples to be the only valid ones.

And we really need to leave pro sports out of this. Yes, DCI is called the "major leagues", but that's a matter of semantics. The better comparisons are with collegiate sports since the participants have a limited window to participate, can go wherever they want, there is no draft, salary cap, revenue sharing, parity concerns, etc. But to even compare it to a sport is silly. DC is judged competitions. There is no offense/defense, and since the shows change very little, aside from minor tweaks and cleaning, the performers play the same "game" with the same players over and over. Plus, your "team" puts every single participant on the field - something that doesn't happen in any other of the activities we try to compare it to. Do you think putting five or even ten of the world's best marchers and players on one corps would make any difference? It does in sports. One dominant pitcher, running back, 7'2" center can push a team from mediocraty to championship caliber instantly in sports.

BTW, the Celtics won 16 in 30 years, not 14/41, plus when they won 10 out of 12 from 59-70, they played the Lakers, Hawks, and Warriors. Only 3 different opponents in 10 games. The use of these examples are to point out that having repeat champions is not a problem. And the examples of Blue Stars and Crown go to show that it's not the fault of DCI or the rules in place that prevent other corps besides the Cadeviliers from reaching the top. Not every corps, or sports team for that matter, has the necessary tools or desire to win a championship, and that's not a bad thing. And if you insist on having a more current result in the pro sports arena, go look at the champs in English Premier League soccer. Arguably the most profitable sports league on the planet right now.

Yes, the activity appears to be declining, and that's a terrible thing. I think your initial item #2 is the main cause, both for marchers and the audience. It's a huge issue for even the big dog - the NFL. No new stadiums have been built for a while, and it's becoming harder to entice people come to the stadium when the at-home experience just keeps getting better and better.

[kickhaltsforlife]

This sort of thinking that since the activity is in the realm of 501c3 anything above love and crackers is not necessary for a CEO salary really hits a nerve in my teeth: When a major corporation is dealing with multimillion, (and I mean multimillion), in revenue/expenditures "per year", and the CEO is the individual directly responsible and held legally accountable for running that multimillion dollar per year corporation, what should be the wage/salary for that person? $7.25 per hour wage? $12,000 per year salary? Volunteer out of love? Or should the salary be commensurate with the accountability/responsibility the CEO position has to running any other multimillion dollar per year corporation?

Did I say they should be making minimum wage? No. But again, these are not for profit businesses. How come there is so much profit going on? I think they should be making comfortable salaries. But you don't have to be into 6 figures. Share the wealth a little. I don't see a problem with that. And I also know the pay is extrememly different on a corps by corps basis.