jonnyboy Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 MASS HYSTERIA! Take a breathe please. Quoted for truth. The ONLY thing good that might come from this thread is that a few corps might develop a protocol for this type of situation. It is rare, and most people aren't prepared for trauma situation that require split second decisions. A corps should decide when to stop a show, not a timing judge, not an EMT or some guy with a whistle. There should not be stretchers lining the sidelines just in case. A drum major should be empowered to stop a show at an appropriate place. It can be done, especially if that is the way your rehearse. A staff member could say "stop it Tim", and the major stops it at the next best moment. Military, sports, business all show that a few "what if" discussions can go a long way. If a corps direct can't answer the question "what happens if a kid goes down on the 50 yard line at any point of your show...what do you do?", they need to think about it. Although the PC incident isn't the case, any person saying a corps can't stop a show and must march around a body on the field is nuts. I don't give a flying hoot about how fast you are backing up, if there is body on the field there is no excuse. This hasn't been the case to my knowledge, but get real. No one sane will fault a corps for stopping a show to help someone. Unless its finals night, the corps shouldn't have to finish the show or do it again unless they want to, even then its just a show. The head judge should (and probably does) have the common sense power to grant the corps a restart, or to go on after the last corps, or to not go on again. As a human being, you should stop to help people. I didn't see the vid, but I would hope an adult judging would at least stop and say "you okay kid?". If the kid can't get up, wave towards the sideline, the staff will get the message. As a staff member you should not have to think twice about helping a kids. I can see giving him a bit to recover, but if the recovery doesn't happen you have to happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarnia sam Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) I highly suggest that you find out about the DCI medical community prior to extending your comments. Your contention here is that they are nothing more than a bunch of buffoons who are really not that concerned with the safety of the youth in DCI. And as for injuries; dude, and I mean this with all respect; injuries happen when a person engages in "any" physical activity. The only way youth baseball batters can keep from getting hit in the back with a baseball thrown by a pitcher is for them to only play tee-ball. And then the only way for a youth out on the field to keep from getting smacked in the face by that ball is for the batter to always strike-out by not hitting the ball off the tee. And the only way for a runner not to break a leg or scar up a knee is to eliminate the base running. So, for the safety of the kids, lets make it mandatory in youth baseball that nobody can hit the ball off the tee, nobody can run the basses, and oh yeah, all youth baseball players must now wear both football and hockey gear. Ah, reading comprehension, the lost art. Never said one word about the medics, didn't say one thing resembling any buffoons, never said anyone wasn't concerned with anyone's safety. You've coached baseball? I have. There's a way to run the bases to minimize the chance for those kind of injuries - and I taught it, and I insisted the players do it, and if I saw them not doing it correctly, we practiced it again - the whole team. There's a way to hit the dirt properly. There's only one way to pay attention to the ball and the play. Three straight winning seasons with maximun four loses, no injuries. Accidents still happen, but you have to think through the alternatives and find ways to achieve what you want without sacrificing team members. You must be watching a lot of different corps than I am. I see all kinds of potential for injury out there and in light of this most recent injury, I'm merely asking how and if drill writers and instructors are really thinking about what they are asking the kids to do. Anyway, it seems no one cares, save for one other person, so carry on. Regards, John addendum: That last line above is not to mean the people who have posted about the specific incident don't care. I meant no one cares about my position that the problem is avoidable and the real issue goes back to the writing stage. Edited July 28, 2012 by sarnia sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 yes, the judge could have made it worse ... but at least the judge could have made enough of a spectacle to get some ppl out there to help sooner. I think that's all anyone upset was expecting. I saw the dude look right at him ... then turn left and keep on going. It was just ...........wrong. At the Bucknell Sr show around 1980 the ambulance crew was right past the end zone on the audiences right (ground level). Problem was one of the Skyliners went down HARD to the left of the 50. With all the bodies in the way the medics never saw there was a problem until the audience started yelling and pointing. Weird watching the medics looking at the crowd with a WTH look and then catching on there was a problem. As for the DCA Prelims that Jeff mentioned earlier there was a delay in getting medical attention on the field because the medics did have a way to see the field and it took a while for security to contact them. Few corps later someone went down and this time security learned and was calling right after the guy toppled (was walking by a security guard who was calling when the 2nd incident happened). IMO, every show needs to have a system where the medics are contacted ASAP without having to rely on on field people. But someone is needed to get to the downed person so they don't get run over by the corps and have others hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLD Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Y'all did notice that the kid was marching tonight, right? Keep Calm, and Carry On Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Quoted for truth. The ONLY thing good that might come from this thread is that a few corps might develop a protocol for this type of situation. It is rare, and most people aren't prepared for trauma situation that require split second decisions. A corps should decide when to stop a show, not a timing judge, not an EMT or some guy with a whistle. There should not be stretchers lining the sidelines just in case. A drum major should be empowered to stop a show at an appropriate place. It can be done, especially if that is the way your rehearse. A staff member could say "stop it Tim", and the major stops it at the next best moment. Military, sports, business all show that a few "what if" discussions can go a long way. If a corps direct can't answer the question "what happens if a kid goes down on the 50 yard line at any point of your show...what do you do?", they need to think about it. Although the PC incident isn't the case, any person saying a corps can't stop a show and must march around a body on the field is nuts. I don't give a flying hoot about how fast you are backing up, if there is body on the field there is no excuse. This hasn't been the case to my knowledge, but get real. No one sane will fault a corps for stopping a show to help someone. Unless its finals night, the corps shouldn't have to finish the show or do it again unless they want to, even then its just a show. The head judge should (and probably does) have the common sense power to grant the corps a restart, or to go on after the last corps, or to not go on again. As a human being, you should stop to help people. I didn't see the vid, but I would hope an adult judging would at least stop and say "you okay kid?". If the kid can't get up, wave towards the sideline, the staff will get the message. As a staff member you should not have to think twice about helping a kids. I can see giving him a bit to recover, but if the recovery doesn't happen you have to happen. With all due respect, medical personnel ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have the responsibility and precedence to render aid. That said, unless in moments of extreme catastrophic duress, it is ALWAYS safer to clear the area prior to rendering aid. It may aren anathema, but prior to the rendering of aid, it is the caregiver's safety that is tantamount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) double post Edited July 29, 2012 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) You've coached baseball? I have. There's a way to run the bases to minimize the chance for those kind of injuries - and I taught it, and I insisted the players do it, and if I saw them not doing it correctly, we practiced it again - the whole team. There's a way to hit the dirt properly. There's only one way to pay attention to the ball and the play. Three straight winning seasons with maximum four loses, no injuries. Accidents still happen, but you have to think through the alternatives and find ways to achieve what you want without sacrificing team members. Yes I have indeed coached baseball; and yes I also taught proper throwing skills, proper running skills, proper swing skills, etc... and also taught the proper warm-up cool-down exercises (which, by the way, I learned form those bad awful DCI instructors you are blasting). And even then, over the years that I was associated with youth baseball, I happened to see a line-drive shot hit a youth pitcher in the ribs cracking one; I happened to see a youth player sliding into home where the webbing of the catchers mitt got caught in the cleats of the kid sliding into home (sliding properly I might add) and the kid suffered a broken ankle. These things could have only been prevented if there were no pitcher on the mound (such as in Tee ball) and a rule against sliding; but even then accidentally stepping on a base bag wrong, or a line shot to a first baseman, would yield the same potential for accidents. Proper training was not the issue; the only way to prevent those injuries would be to not have youth play the game at all. You must be watching a lot of different corps than I am. I see all kinds of potential for injury out there and in light of this most recent injury, Nope; we are seeing the same corps and we both are seeing the same potential for injury. In fact, I see injuries such as sprained ankles, skinned keens, bruises, scrapes, etc... many times during the summer, every summer, in the drum corps activity (which is no different than the injuries my wife sees on the neighborhood youth playground every summer). It is just that you are fixating on the one serious injury anomaly which occurred to a single Crown performer. The same risk of non-serious injuries, and small risk of serious injury, exists in all youth activities (unless you are claiming that falling off the monkey-bars at a playground has never yielded a broken leg; in which you would be delusional); and there is no way to eliminate them; no way; at all; no exceptions. I'm merely asking how and if drill writers and instructors are really thinking about what they are asking the kids to do. YES THEY ARE!!! (all caps intended). Your implication appalls me in that again, just like your view on the medical community, you seem to believe that the drill designers and instructors are incompetent morons who do not care for the safety and welfare of the youth! Anyway, it seems no one cares, save for one other person, so carry on. addendum: That last line above is not to mean the people who have posted about the specific incident don't care. I meant no one cares about my position that the problem is avoidable and the real issue goes back to the writing stage. No problem, not one, is "avoidable" unless you chose to avoid the entire activity. And let's see: since 1972 in DCI there have been thousands of designers and instructors in drum corps. And only you and one other person care for the safety and welfare of those youth via proper marching instruction and accessible drill design. Ok, ya got me there; nobody cares about the kids except you, and some other person. Edited July 29, 2012 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 With all due respect, medical personnel ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have the responsibility and precedence to render aid. That said, unless in moments of extreme catastrophic duress, it is ALWAYS safer to clear the area prior to rendering aid. It may aren anathema, but prior to the rendering of aid, it is the caregiver's safety that is tantamount. I'm not sure what this has to do with what I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 A lot of these injuries could be prevented if corps staff would stop using archaic stretching and warm ups that, quite frankly, do more harm to the performer than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure what this has to do with what I posted. Oh just some nonsense about an EMT not having the authority to render immediate aid. They already do. Edited July 29, 2012 by 13strokeroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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