sburstall Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 WHAT NONSENCE.ASK AND YOU'LL HEAR THE TRUTH <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is this "she who shall never be spoken about"?? If it isn't, then post the sheets up. Prove who you say you are and let those Much's alumni verified you marched...or are you scared?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnaheimAlumni Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Well the Machachos sound like they were a pretty classless act! I feel bad for the kids that didn't know, but if you don't do backround checks then you have only yourselves to blame! That's appauling that they were behaving in such a manner at finals. DCI should have prohibited anyone who had anything to do with the Machachos from enterting the stadium that night!Why were they not on the 1974 DVD tho? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would love to have that answer. I still have the flyer that advertised Muchachos 1974 on the DVD. I called(and emailed) DCI and got a "duh, I don't think it was advertised" answer from the guy who answered the phone. I also emailed them three times but they didn't have the balls to respond. I've heard recordings of 1975. I think they were better in 1974. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchachos Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Is this "she who shall never be spoken about"?? If it isn't, then post the sheets up. Prove who you say you are and let those Much's alumni verified you marched...or are you scared?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not being a computer geek, guide me through how I can post this score sheet. What you will see are 2 drum sheets from 1975 prelims....each having just 1 tick...we scored 19.8 in drums....I only have the drum sheets, as each of us were given a copy because it was the highest drum score recorded...and it was of historical importance for a few reasons.....people know, but it's still hush hush....in time, things will be released such as the "real recording" and a video of that performance that has been used in marching clinics throughout the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywalker Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Take the sheets to a Kinko's or something and have them scan it and copy it onto a disc. (It won't ruin it or anything, it's like making a photocopy.) Then post the picture of the sheets online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) I would love to have that answer. I still have the flyer that advertised Muchachos 1974 on the DVD. I called(and emailed) DCI and got a "duh, I don't think it was advertised" answer from the guy who answered the phone. I also emailed them three times but they didn't have the balls to respond. I've heard recordings of 1975. I think they were better in 1974. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It was a typo when they put it on. The Muchachos performed early in the prelims process in '74, (according to Jeff Kievet, it was because their management made a mistake in filing the forms, fwiw). Because the cameras weren't set up to tape the corps who went on early (with the belief that they were not as likely to be contenders for the title), the Muchachos weren't taped. No great conspiracy, just a series of events. I agree it's a shame their's no video record of their show that year, since I too think it was a better show than the '75 show. Edited February 22, 2005 by mobrien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 in time, things will be released such as the "real recording" and a video of that performance that has been used in marching clinics throughout the years. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How many hours a day do the attendants let you stay on line? Folks, either we have a serious delusional on the other end of this conversation, or someone's just yanking our collective chains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Not being a computer geek, guide me through how I can post this score sheet. What you will see are 2 drum sheets from 1975 prelims....each having just 1 tick...we scored 19.8 in drums....I only have the drum sheets, as each of us were given a copy because it was the highest drum score recorded...and it was of historical importance for a few reasons.....people know, but it's still hush hush....in time, things will be released such as the "real recording" and a video of that performance that has been used in marching clinics throughout the years. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm glad you have TWO sheets to prove your score...but wait a minute.....back then weren't there 11 judges???? So how can you prove that the Muchachos won prelims by what is it 0.6 of a point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertoo Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Not being a computer geek, guide me through how I can post this score sheet. What you will see are 2 drum sheets from 1975 prelims....each having just 1 tick...we scored 19.8 in drums....I only have the drum sheets, as each of us were given a copy because it was the highest drum score recorded...and it was of historical importance for a few reasons.....people know, but it's still hush hush....in time, things will be released such as the "real recording" and a video of that performance that has been used in marching clinics throughout the years. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Liar. Heard it all before. Another whiner with no proof. Ho hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixh Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I marched in the '75 Muchachos, I haven't read so much BS in my entire life as what is in this string of crap. That day was my 18th birthday; it was August 15, 1975. We had been first on in the prelims because John MacAulffe (MAC) our director was in a pissing match with Pesceone all year. He wanted DCI to give us a break on tour requirements because we didn't have much money. I was in his office one night when they were screaming at each other on the phone. (Although the cigarette never fell off of MAC’s lip) MAC held the application for finals until he got a definition of what we were going to have to do. Pesceone put us on first because the App was late! Angelica would show up to our practices, act like he was a big supporter, then bad mouth us to others in the DCI "insiders" group. We were definitely on the outside and because oif our success, that seemed to tick a number of the DCI “click” ( The Lombard elite) off. That morning we came off the field at Prelims and Don Warren and Don Pesceone did not approach MAC, they went directly to our only Roto Tom player (That thing sucked anyway) Mike Wade, pulled him out of the ranks physically and asked him for his credentials. Why was Don Warren involved? Warren hated MAC that was for sure. Shouldn’t it have been Briske? There was a guy from Garfield that went to the Cav’s named Romeo who knew Wade and ratted him out. Wade was carrying his wallet with him and just gave it to them. He was 3 months overage. It was wrong. But you have to understand the times and the precedents that we were dealing with. We had guys in our corps who came from many other corps who had people who were 5+ years over age. But who remembers the IC Reveres? You might remember SAC, or St. Lucy’s. We were told to give our birth certificates to MAC in the middle of the season. We had some guys who were with us from the bad end of Paterson NJ who didn't even know where they were born, much less have documents. Everyone had to scramble to get the paperwork together because we had to have it done to hand in at the first Lowell show. Some guys didn't even live in NJ and Mommy and Daddy weren’t always the biggest supporters of Drum Crops back then. For some of these people it was like leaving home to join the circus or a gang. I don't know where these people writing this crap come up with 20 over age members. Come on. Jeff Kievit was 20 turning 21 that year. He even marched in the VFW nationals the following year because they used a different timing on when the birth date was eligible. Anyone who said that he was overage is full of it. He was 19 years old when he played lead trumpet for Frank Sinatra while a freshman at U of Miami. OK he was a pro, but he was eligible! The biggest problem I have with all of this is that over the years I have met at least 10 people who were with other corps that Finals night who were over age. (Actually three of them were pulled for Finals but marched in Prelims. Take a close look at full corps pictures that night vs. prelims, if you could ask Moe Knox he would tell you, he did to me, oh well a lot that did for anyone.) Two were with Madison (I marched with one of them in Cabs), One with Oakland, A few were with 27th and on and on. They told me to my face. I even saw their driver’s licenses! Did their directors know? Who the F knows? Did MAC know? He spent more time fighting with Angelica and Pesceone about touring and the "evolution" of Drum Corps to a new level while our funds were bleeding than checking up on everyone who was trying to get into the corps that year and whether they were dummying up documents. The bigger question was why then, Prelims morning and why in that way? Romeo knew Wade for years. I know based upon a verified conversation (told to me by a Caption Head years later) that occurred with several of the Directors the night before Prelims that there was a dislike for MAC's style and the way he felt that DCI was treating the eastern corps and their lack of funding to take on the major growth that DCI was planning. The statement was that they had to CORRECT the situation! This group was made up of those who just wanted us out because if we were successful we may have had a say in keeping some of that from happening. And there might be a bunch more corps still around today. This group of people included Jim Jones who was also concerned about the fact that the Troopers barely made it that night. (And haven't since) The whole effort that DCI was pushing was to improve the quality of Drum Corps and to #### with anyone who couldn’t pay the bills. (That’s why there were over 100 corps in the NJ Legion show that year and now there are not 100 corps period!) If DCI was so concerned about over age why didn’t we get approached prior to prelims that morning? They said that they had evidence weeks earlier. For those of us who were much younger (I was 18) and many who marched in the corps for over 10 years (some were less than 5 when they started. That’s right we were a real Junior Corps who used to do parades with kids who could barely stand up and hold a drum at the same time.) Did anybody realize how devastating that was to kids? And yes we were kids! Did the “Don’s” have any right to physically pull a member from the ranks as we were leaving the field without involving the director? Given the concern, why weren’t any other corps approached in this manner? Spot checks or something during the season? No this was to try to destroy the corps who was going to upset the master plan by possibly winning despite not having a fleet of busses or even a tractor trailer (We did finally get a new truck that year, not to big, but it was OK for us.) I would have like to have thought we won the Prelims, the show was clean, but it was 8:30am. I mean come on. We were night people! Would we have won it all? Well I guess no one will ever know, but it could have been one of the most exciting moments for the fans ever. I was in Denver this year and I barely saw anyone stand up at any point during anyone’s show until it was over. OK SCV had one mid show SO. If we were ON for a given night, it was rare that anyone sat down! The week before Finals in ’75 at the CYO Nationals we got a standing ovation that lasted almost as long as the show. And yes we did loose to the Devils at the World Open two nights before because that same Roto Tom player F’ed up a lead into a drum solo and the show was screwed up from the beginning of Pines till practically the exit. Instructing that corps that year were Dennis Deluccia, Jeff Kievit, Frank Gerris, Jim Messina, Charlie Groh, Jack Mehan the list went on and on. This was not during the times of big salaries either. These people were some of the best of all time. Marching was something else even more; Jim Prime, Don Van Dooren, Joe Koenig, Ed Argenziano, Mike Mercandante, Mike and Tom Durbrow, Marc Dernell (who with Jeff won individuals that year on French Horn) Lou Mondelli, and many more who are either still involved in one form or another, in the Hall of Fame or had great teaching careers after they aged out. Were we ###### off at Chicago, #### right, their director went after US! A corps member there went after US! Anyone who has any heart in this activity knows when you are attacked by people who are out to get you, you don't sit on your thumbs! Fights used to break out on retreat, I know I was in a few of them over things a lot less that what happened at Franklin Field. And despite the comments about our behavior, we didn't always start them either as some would have you believe. The whole thing screwed up a bunch of people lives because all we knew was Drum Corps. And if you were truly in the activity you know exactly what I am talking about. I lost several friends who were never able to get their heads straight about it and that's a #### shame. One of my best friends died only two years ago and that’s a long time to have your head so messed up from something that happened 25 years ago. But I guess its like a car wreck, everyone is tittilated looking at the carnage and talking about it afterwards particularly if there is some intregue. Did they win or didn't they? BS! I am 47 years old now. I don’t enjoy Drum Corps that much any more. I haven’t missed finals in all those years, but I think this is finally the end. I feel sad about the fact that we should have had a chance or an opportunity to correct the situation earlier and that every corps should have been treated the same way, under the same capricious scrutiny, but I guess as in life, things are not always fair. DCI was arbitrary in its actions and I guess if we knew better at the time we could have gotten lawyers and the whole thing that Bridgemen did with court injunctions etc., but it didn’t happen. So stop looking for a smoking gun and think about what we all missed. That was the biggest tragedy of all. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow! After reading this I am made sick by the elitist tone of several of the contributors here including some of the folks I marched with. It is a shame when so many become legends in their own minds...I truely know and have learned as an adult, father, and union negotiator that there are always two sides to every story. Your rationale makes complete sense, even though much of it is emotionally charged.....the arrogant tone of many of the posts is typical of elitist units that I too experienced while marching only one championship season with the Blue Devils in 1979. The one quote from a post I read earlier said it best....why would scores not be tabulated if there was not the possibility of a victory,...not a conspiracy theory, but common sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixh Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Two were with Madison (I marched with one of them in Cabs), Name them. Liar. Madison had birth certificates for EVERY member in 1975; to their knowlwdge and to DCI's, these documents were authentic. Unlike the muchachos. Who were caught cheating. Period. Madison didn't march any holes at 1975 finals. And nobody came close to beating them that year, not even the cheaters. Case closed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Since you are not a judge or Christ almighty, you cannot be the one to say when a case is closed....some of your posts here are not only childish but blatantly arrogant...show a little class Mister whatever your name...the mask avatar is appropriate...you should hide your face in shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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