fsubone Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Three weeks left, gonna be fun to see where this awesome show ends up. 2013 imo has already become one of the great years for the Madison Scouts. 3 weeks left... keep pushing! I agree with you. This has been their best show since 2005, just need some tweaks to make it all that the staff and members want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) The last few years they've exploded onto the map in the early season, only to slide backwards into Finals. I would rather them start slow and climb the ladder as the season goes along. 2011 they lost a spot in each regional until Finals week, and in 2012 they were 7th at San Antonio, and then 9th during Finals week. I think most people would rather them go the other direction though the season. I'm not as concerned as this year as I am in the coming years. Scott Stewart could take Madison Scouts with an entertaining Corps to 4th and 5th place... not a problem. But taking an audience friendly, musically highly entertaining Madison Scouts to the top 3 and a possibility of a DCI Title is another ball game altogether. This is not 1975 1988, and the judging system utilized here in the 21st century has little to no relationship at all to the 1970's, 1980's. None. Scott Stewart was a smart guy. He fought tooth and nail to have " audience engagement " as part of the judging criteria. We know the results of that battle. He unfortunately lost that battle. DCI since the 80's have evolved into a Visually driven Drum Corps idiom. Look at the Blue Devils. When the Madison Scouts went head to head with the Blue Devils in the 1970's, 1980's BD was a highly entertaining musically driven Drum Corps. But the landscape changed as the influence of WGI took hold, and the influence of Visually driven Corps like the Cavaliers emerged in the 90's. So BD changed. BD now here in 2000's bears little resemblance at all to the musically entertaining Corps of the 70's and the 80's. So what will Madison Scouts do should they get to the 5th or so position ? They will have to become another BD or Crown this year with eclectic shows in order to move up. Music will have to give way to the Visual. If the goal here with Madison is to win a DCI Title and thats the future end game here as a goal for the Madison Scouts of the future, then that future runs thru Concord, Calif. And that will require the Madison Scouts to do exactly as BD did... lose the audience, lose the fans, beat BD with a boring, but well performed exhibition of " High Art ". Looking at Madison's scores and placements over the next few weeks is fun. I 'd love them to do what Boston did last season and knock out one or more of the G7 Corps. But my long term interest with the Madison Scouts will come should they ever get to 5th place, 4th place. There the road divides. And whatever road Madison Scouts will take will determine whether the Scouts decide to play for the judges, and move up, or do exactly what Scott Stewart did... stay true to the entertainment and true to itelf, and live without the Top Tier soul selling that such a road will require if they take the other road in hopes of becoming an esoteric Drum Corps that can beat an esoteric, boring,fan unfriendly, but very efficient BD. Edited July 21, 2013 by BRASSO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdcoast Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I think the tradition of a drum corps now a-days is to add your true ending closer to a large regional show to push your corps over the hump of mid season.... Not one corps in the top five has a real ending out yet.. Nor do the scouts So true. Maybe a wedge? I so can't wait to see where this all goes over the next few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdcoast Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Still gives me goosebumps weedy, what a great weekend we had with the performing group and all. Hope to see you in Sept. so we can do it again. It was an honor playing on the field in front of a crowd with The Corps. See you soon, brother. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I'm not as concerned as this year as I am in the coming years. Scott Stewart could take Madison Scouts with an entertaining Corps to 4th and 5th place... not a problem. But taking an audience friendly, musically highly entertaining Madison Scouts to the top 3 and a possibility of a DCI Title is another ball game altogether. This is not 1975 1988, and the judging system utilized here in the 21st century has little to no relationship at all to the 1970's, 1980's. None. Scott Stewart was a smart guy. He fought tooth and nail to have " audience engagement " as part of the judging criteria. We know the results of that battle. He unfortunately lost that battle. DCI since the 80's have evolved into a Visually driven Drum Corps idiom. Look at the Blue Devils. When the Madison Scouts went head to head with the Blue Devils in the 1970's, 1980's BD was a highly entertaining musically driven Drum Corps. But the landscape changed as the influence of WGI took hold, and the influence of Visually driven Corps like the Cavaliers emerged in the 90's. So BD changed. BD now here in 2000's bears little resemblance at all to the musically entertaining Corps of the 70's and the 80's. So what will Madison Scouts do should they get to the 5th or so position ? They will have to become another BD or Crown this year with eclectic shows in order to move up. Music will have to give way to the Visual. If the goal here with Madison is to win a DCI Title and thats the future end game here as a goal for the Madison Scouts of the future, then that future runs thru Concord, Calif. And that will require the Madison Scouts to do exactly as BD did... lose the audience, lose the fans, beat BD with a boring, but well performed exhibition of " High Art ". Looking at Madison's scores and placements over the next few weeks is fun. I 'd love them to do what Boston did last season and knock out one or more of the G7 Corps. But my long term interest with the Madison Scouts will come should they ever get to 5th place, 4th place. There the road divides. And whatever road Madison Scouts will take will determine whether the Scouts decide to play for the judges, and move up, or do exactly what Scott Stewart did... stay true to the entertainment and true to itelf, and live without the Top Tier soul selling that such a road will require if they take the other road in hopes of becoming an esoteric Drum Corps that can beat an esoteric, boring,fan unfriendly, but very efficient BD. Well said. Interesting note though...If you speak to the current leadership, they thoroughly believe they can win at "this game", win championships, and not sell their souls in the process. The goal is to do it the "Madison way" and raising the bar while staying true to their trademark entertainment style. As with you, I don’t know how they get there and maybe they need to simply be satisfied with putting out more of those unforgettable shows such as "A Drum Corps Fan Dream" and "Pirates of Lake Mendota", etc, etc (it's a rather long list). And maybe, just maybe they can successfully turn the tide their way in getting the community focused back towards entertainment from a “musical” perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine White Russians Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Well said. Interesting note though...If you speak to the current leadership, they thoroughly believe they can win at "this game", win championships, and not sell their souls in the process. The goal is to do it the "Madison way" and raising the bar while staying true to their trademark entertainment style. As with you, I don't know how they get there and maybe they need to simply be satisfied with putting out more of those unforgettable shows such as "A Drum Corps Fan Dream" and "Pirates of Lake Mendota", etc, etc (it's a rather long list). And maybe, just maybe they can successfully turn the tide their way in getting the community focused back towards entertainment from a "musical" perspective. Well, if I know Jim Mason, he is in it to win it. And he probably is patient and has a vision for the long term. I also believe he has some shrewd strategy up his sleeve for the future of the Scouts. I'm guessing the big 2014 Macy's parade has something to do with that. I heard that his game plan for Minneapolis and San Antonio was to achieve 7th place, and he did that. Not sure what his next goals are, but I remain excited for the rest of the season. And this show will be mentioned among those you listed for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Anello Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 While I know many people were looking at how the Cavies are closing the gap with the Scouts, a FB question got me looking at the spread between Madison and the corps they are chasing, the Bluecoats. On 7/19, Madison was less than .6 away from them, only to have the spread really open up last night. Why? In comparing the recaps from the two nights, the answers would appear to point to color guard and Percussion. Unless I'm misreading, on 7/19, Madison beat Bloo by 1.5 in guard. Last night, Bloo won this caption by .1. On 7/19, Bloo beat Madison in drums by .2. Last night, they walloped Madison by 1.1. The spreads in the other captions are pretty tight. The culprits appear to be guard and percussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobjective Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) I'm not as concerned as this year as I am in the coming years. Scott Stewart could take Madison Scouts with an entertaining Corps to 4th and 5th place... not a problem. But taking an audience friendly, musically highly entertaining Madison Scouts to the top 3 and a possibility of a DCI Title is another ball game altogether. This is not 1975 1988, and the judging system utilized here in the 21st century has little to no relationship at all to the 1970's, 1980's. None. Scott Stewart was a smart guy. He fought tooth and nail to have " audience engagement " as part of the judging criteria. We know the results of that battle. He unfortunately lost that battle. DCI since the 80's have evolved into a Visually driven Drum Corps idiom. Look at the Blue Devils. When the Madison Scouts went head to head with the Blue Devils in the 1970's, 1980's BD was a highly entertaining musically driven Drum Corps. But the landscape changed as the influence of WGI took hold, and the influence of Visually driven Corps like the Cavaliers emerged in the 90's. So BD changed. BD now here in 2000's bears little resemblance at all to the musically entertaining Corps of the 70's and the 80's. So what will Madison Scouts do should they get to the 5th or so position ? They will have to become another BD or Crown this year with eclectic shows in order to move up. Music will have to give way to the Visual. If the goal here with Madison is to win a DCI Title and thats the future end game here as a goal for the Madison Scouts of the future, then that future runs thru Concord, Calif. And that will require the Madison Scouts to do exactly as BD did... lose the audience, lose the fans, beat BD with a boring, but well performed exhibition of " High Art ". Looking at Madison's scores and placements over the next few weeks is fun. I 'd love them to do what Boston did last season and knock out one or more of the G7 Corps. But my long term interest with the Madison Scouts will come should they ever get to 5th place, 4th place. There the road divides. And whatever road Madison Scouts will take will determine whether the Scouts decide to play for the judges, and move up, or do exactly what Scott Stewart did... stay true to the entertainment and true to itelf, and live without the Top Tier soul selling that such a road will require if they take the other road in hopes of becoming an esoteric Drum Corps that can beat an esoteric, boring,fan unfriendly, but very efficient BD. I am a Scout alum and no doubt some of my brothers will say that I am selling out. But, at this point in the DCI game, I say take the road that leads to more esoteric, boring, fan unfriendly, very efficient shows. I want to see this organization with more championship rings!!! Who are we fooling, we want to win!!! While in Rome do as the Romans!!! Edited July 22, 2013 by bobjective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Well, if I know Jim Mason, he is in it to win it. And he probably is patient and has a vision for the long term. I also believe he has some shrewd strategy up his sleeve for the future of the Scouts. I'm guessing the big 2014 Macy's parade has something to do with that. I heard that his game plan for Minneapolis and San Antonio was to achieve 7th place, and he did that. Not sure what his next goals are, but I remain excited for the rest of the season. And this show will be mentioned among those you listed for sure! I can only hope you're right concerning this year’s show and its potential of going down in the Madison Scout history books as one of the "greats". My concern though, as I've mentioned previously and as I believe you have so aptly pointed out...I'm consistently told that though the show has it great moments, it lacks the difficulty and design of the top tier corps. Again, if this is the case, I ask why? Especially after being told that this was the exact concern and disappointment from the last several seasons, I.E, "we wish that we would have given the men more to work with". This should not be! We all know that it takes the miraculous, destiny and a whole lot of crazy things to happen 3 weeks out from the championship to accomplish major upward movement in score. Unless Jim and gang have something Herculean up the sleeve, I fully expect the Cavies to surpass the Scouts in their next meeting. It would seem that the name of the game now days is to give your corps a "substantial" product right out of the gate with expected substantial additions and re-writes. You also have to have a belief system that communicates, "We’re here and able to accomplish substantially more than what you ever thought possible, and we're going to show you how we're going to get there" (I believe Sandra Opie could speak eloquently as to how this is done while pointing to her accomplishments!). Limited small thinking is unfortunate and deadly. (P.S, Care to share what Jim’s goals are for Allentown and Indi)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 While I know many people were looking at how the Cavies are closing the gap with the Scouts, a FB question got me looking at the spread between Madison and the corps they are chasing, the Bluecoats. On 7/19, Madison was less than .6 away from them, only to have the spread really open up last night. Why? In comparing the recaps from the two nights, the answers would appear to point to color guard and Percussion. Unless I'm misreading, on 7/19, Madison beat Bloo by 1.5 in guard. Last night, Bloo won this caption by .1. On 7/19, Bloo beat Madison in drums by .2. Last night, they walloped Madison by 1.1. The spreads in the other captions are pretty tight. The culprits appear to be guard and percussion. Visuals to a degree as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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